Boy Scouts of America Selects Campfire Cafe Cookbook

[Fred Goodwin, CMA]

Boy Scouts of America Selects Campfire Cafe Cookbook

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/5/prweb384364.htm

(PRWEB) May 16, 2006 -- Over The Open Fire, a unique cookbook featuring
open fire cooking recipes and methods from the popular television
series Campfire Cafe, has been chosen for worldwide distribution by the
Boy Scouts of America (BSA).

Boy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. In the outdoors, the
skills and activities practiced at troop meetings come alive with
purpose. Outdoor cooking has long proved to be an activity that helps
make outdoor excursions more fun and educational. Over The Open Fire
takes traditional open-fire cooking methods enjoyed by Scouts to a
higher level with gourmet recipes and menus that challenge and inspire.

Scouts are required on campouts to provide their own meals: create
menus, buy ingredients, transport and store it safely, prepare recipes,
serve meals and clean up afterward -- while outdoors. They must do this
in good or bad weather, and without modern conveniences. Learning to
cook maximizes the Boy Scout experience, and Over the Open Fire offers
recipes, instruction, tips, and techniques to assist Scouts in
fulfilling the requirements necessary to earn a cooking merit badge --
one of Scouting's basic character-building programs.

Being close to nature helps Boy Scouts gain an appreciation for the
beauty of the world around us. In addition to recipes with step-by-step
instruction and photographs, Over The Open Fire is a cookbook filled
with helpful information on a variety of outdoor issues common to
Scouting. Camping etiquette, food safety, selection and storage,
fishing and boating safety, and respect for nature are just a few of
the topics covered.

Scouting, as known to millions of youth and adults, evolved during the
early 1900s through the efforts of several men dedicated to bettering
youth. Pioneers of the program conceived outdoor activities that
developed skills in young boys and gave them a sense of enjoyment,
fellowship, and a code of conduct for everyday living. Cooking is an
activity that allows participation on some level by all those involved,
and promotes a sense of accomplishment and camaraderie when enjoying
meals together.

Campfire Cafe's dedication to teaching open-fire cooking as a
valuable life skill fits well with Scouting objectives. The BSA
believes that Over The Open Fire will prove to be a useful handbook for
Scouts and Troop Leaders seeking to elevate the outdoor cooking
experience that remains an important element of Scouting today.

Over The Open Fire cookbook will be available online at Scouting.org in
June 2006 for $24.95 in a special softcover edition, 264-pages with
over 230 recipes and directions for both open-fire and kitchen
preparation and cooking.

# # #

[Blair P. Houghton]

The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
discriminates in egregious ways.

--Blair

[aem]

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> discriminates in egregious ways.
>
Known best, culinarily speaking, for wiener water soup. -aem

[Food Snob]

aem wrote:
> Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> > The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> > discriminates in egregious ways.
> >
> Known best, culinarily speaking, for wiener water soup.

If you reduce the weiner broth and add a flour and milk slurry, you end
up with that notorious South St. Louis specialty, Weenie Water Gravy.

> -aem

--Bryan

[notbob]

On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> discriminates in egregious ways.

Whatta load of crap. I was in the Scouts for 6 years (3 Cub, 3 Boy)
and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
schools and currency are more religious. As for discrimination, we
didn't even know what a fag was in those days. Perhaps NAMBLA has a
summer camp.

nb

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"notbob" <***@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:***@comcast.com...
> On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>> discriminates in egregious ways.
>
> Whatta load of crap. I was in the Scouts for 6 years (3 Cub, 3 Boy)
> and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
> Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
> schools and currency are more religious. As for discrimination, we
> didn't even know what a fag was in those days. Perhaps NAMBLA has a
> summer camp.
>
> nb

5 years ago, BSA decided Unitarianism was no longer good enough to have a
merit badge. Say what you will, but the organization's quite odd.

[Tom G]

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "notbob" <***@nothome.com> wrote in message
> news:***@comcast.com...
> > On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> >> discriminates in egregious ways.
> >
> > Whatta load of crap. I was in the Scouts for 6 years (3 Cub, 3 Boy)
> > and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
> > Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
> > schools and currency are more religious. As for discrimination, we
> > didn't even know what a fag was in those days. Perhaps NAMBLA has a
> > summer camp.
> >
> > nb
>
> 5 years ago, BSA decided Unitarianism was no longer good enough to have a
> merit badge. Say what you will, but the organization's quite odd.

I was never a scout. I don't think that scouting was all that odd when
I was a kid in the 70s. I believe that in the last 15-20 years or so
the BSA has more or less become an arm of the Mormon Church (or CJCLDS
as they prefer to be known). This alone accounts for any oddities that
might exist. I am fairly certain that Mormons take a dim view of
Unitarianism, and understandably so. Unitarianism denies the divinity
of Christ, which would be a rather direct affront to Mormonism (and
Christians in general). I can see how the BSA, as a self-proclaimed
Christian organization, would object to Unitarianism.

I respect the BSA's right to be selective in its membership. Private
organizations are just that: private. If you don't like scouts, don't
join--they certainly won't let you join if they don't like you and they
won't hesitate to give you the boot later if they feel the urge.

In my early backapcking experience (early 80s) I came across several
places that had been BSA campsites. Let's just say that LNT wasn't
exactly part of the plan. Their brute force approach to camping at
that time was a real turn-off for me. I think they're better about
that kind of thing now, but still not exactly paragons of LNT.

[notbob]

On 2006-05-17, Tom G <***@mac.com> wrote:

> places that had been BSA campsites. Let's just say that LNT wasn't
> exactly part of the plan. Their brute force approach to camping at
> that time was a real turn-off for me. I think they're better about
> that kind of thing now, but still not exactly paragons of LNT.

LNT? "brute force camping"? What the heck you talkin' about?

nb

[Eugene Miya]

In article <nuCdnZGViM-***@comcast.com>,
notbob <***@nothome.com> wrote:
>On 2006-05-17, Tom G <***@mac.com> wrote:
>> places that had been BSA campsites. Let's just say that LNT wasn't
>> exactly part of the plan. Their brute force approach to camping at
>> that time was a real turn-off for me. I think they're better about
>> that kind of thing now, but still not exactly paragons of LNT.
>
>LNT? "brute force camping"? What the heck you talkin' about?

Leave No Trace.

"brute force:" he means things like big huge bonfires, trenching,
hip holes, carving initials into trees, etc. etc.

Non food followups reduced.

--

[notbob]

On 2006-05-17, Eugene Miya <***@cse.ucsc.edu> wrote:

> "brute force:" he means things like big huge bonfires, trenching,
> hip holes, carving initials into trees, etc. etc.

Ahh. I saw some of that as a kid? What's the PC alternative, today?
Depends? Biodegradable spraypaint? I don't quite get the hip holes,
though. Air mattresses have been around since the 40's. We used them.
Also, hard to cook on a huge bonfire.

nb

[Eugene Miya]

>> "brute force:" he means things like big huge bonfires, trenching,
>> hip holes, carving initials into trees, etc. etc.

In article <N-CdnfAEf_kjDPbZnZ2dnUVZ_u-***@comcast.com>,
notbob <***@nothome.com> wrote:
>Ahh. I saw some of that as a kid? What's the PC alternative, today?
>Depends?

Oh, I doubt a PC name exists except the aforementioned LNT buzz acronym.
"Low impact" is another phrase. If you were to consider the militaristic
uniforms and if you were attempting to train elites like the Special Forces,
then they would learn to keep their signature on the ground minimal.
I don't know if the Devil Pups do this.

> Biodegradable spraypaint?

How about no spraypaint?

>I don't quite get the hip holes,
>though. Air mattresses have been around since the 40's. We used them.

I think they existed before 1940.

>Also, hard to cook on a huge bonfire.

I think they aren't made for cooking.
It's the white man fire red man fire thing.

--

[aem]

notbob wrote:
> On 2006-05-17, Tom G <***@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > places that had been BSA campsites. Let's just say that LNT wasn't
> > exactly part of the plan. Their brute force approach to camping at
> > that time was a real turn-off for me. I think they're better about
> > that kind of thing now, but still not exactly paragons of LNT.
>
> LNT? "brute force camping"? What the heck you talkin' about?
>
LNT = Leave No Trace. The idea is to enjoy the outdoors without
spoiling it. -aem

[notbob]

On 2006-05-17, aem <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

> LNT = Leave No Trace. The idea is to enjoy the outdoors without
> spoiling it. -aem

We did that as Scouts, specially when backpacking and camping deep
into the high Sierra's. I'm sorry to hear it's not being done, now.
I suspect it's more a issue with the specific troop you encountered,
not national Scout policy.

I'll be the first to admit the Scouts aren't perfect. I went on many
a campout and many a camparee and local jambaree and there were
isolated incidents. But, overall, the record of the Scouts was pretty
good.

nb

[Eugene Miya]

>> LNT = Leave No Trace. The idea is to enjoy the outdoors without
>> spoiling it.

In article <tvSdnbkzvZu-***@comcast.com>,
notbob <***@nothome.com> wrote:
>We did that as Scouts, especially when backpacking and camping deep
>into the high Sierra's. I'm sorry to hear it's not being done, now.
>I suspect it's more a issue with the specific troop you encountered,
>not national Scout policy.
>
>I'll be the first to admit the Scouts aren't perfect. I went on many
>a campout and many a camparee and local jambaree and there were
>isolated incidents. But, overall, the record of the Scouts was pretty good.

Well admission is a starting acknowledgement to your credit.
The problem with isolated incidents like specific troops is the really
the intent of the BSA is to be an ideal (not unlike the Peace Corps);
an inspiration/leaders, etc. The reality is the normal set of human foiables.
The question is really whether progress has taken place.
In the 60s and early 70s, the USA was more idealistic.

Considering how much of the rest of the world has separated itself in
the rec.scouting.* hierarchy should give an indication, and the
recalcitrance of BSA leadership. It's kids (look at alcohol stoves),
the Yosemite bear stoning incident, the various BSA lives lost, etc.

I don't know the balance sheet of whether the Scouts are particularly
good, but it should be a neutral judge and a close look. I think
Danny's initial FAQ would be a positive, but going all the way back to
Lord Baden Powell's antics in espionage a minus for Scouts in other
countries having bad things hapen to them. Remember in Animal House
(fiction) Douglas Niedermeyer was shot by his own troops.

--

[Buck]

"Tom G" <***@mac.com> wrote in message
news:***@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "notbob" <***@nothome.com> wrote in message
>> news:***@comcast.com...
>> > On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>> >> discriminates in egregious ways.
>> >
>> > Whatta load of crap. I was in the Scouts for 6 years (3 Cub, 3 Boy)
>> > and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
>> > Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
>> > schools and currency are more religious. As for discrimination, we
>> > didn't even know what a fag was in those days. Perhaps NAMBLA has a
>> > summer camp.
>> >
>> > nb
>>
>> 5 years ago, BSA decided Unitarianism was no longer good enough to have a
>> merit badge. Say what you will, but the organization's quite odd.
>
> I was never a scout. I don't think that scouting was all that odd when
> I was a kid in the 70s. I believe that in the last 15-20 years or so
> the BSA has more or less become an arm of the Mormon Church (or CJCLDS
> as they prefer to be known). This alone accounts for any oddities that
> might exist. I am fairly certain that Mormons take a dim view of
> Unitarianism, and understandably so. Unitarianism denies the divinity
> of Christ, which would be a rather direct affront to Mormonism (and
> Christians in general). I can see how the BSA, as a self-proclaimed
> Christian organization, would object to Unitarianism.

And you explain the BSA religious activity awards to Baha'is, Buddhists,
Hindus, Muslims, Jews, followers of Meher Baba, and Zoroastrians how?

Just curious.

Thanks for playing.

Buck


>
> I respect the BSA's right to be selective in its membership. Private
> organizations are just that: private. If you don't like scouts, don't
> join--they certainly won't let you join if they don't like you and they
> won't hesitate to give you the boot later if they feel the urge.
>
> In my early backapcking experience (early 80s) I came across several
> places that had been BSA campsites. Let's just say that LNT wasn't
> exactly part of the plan. Their brute force approach to camping at
> that time was a real turn-off for me. I think they're better about
> that kind of thing now, but still not exactly paragons of LNT.
>

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"Buck" <***@Buckarooville.cowtown.net> wrote in message
news:fe%ag.78143$***@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Tom G" <***@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:***@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>> "notbob" <***@nothome.com> wrote in message
>>> news:***@comcast.com...
>>> > On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>>> >> discriminates in egregious ways.
>>> >
>>> > Whatta load of crap. I was in the Scouts for 6 years (3 Cub, 3 Boy)
>>> > and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
>>> > Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
>>> > schools and currency are more religious. As for discrimination, we
>>> > didn't even know what a fag was in those days. Perhaps NAMBLA has a
>>> > summer camp.
>>> >
>>> > nb
>>>
>>> 5 years ago, BSA decided Unitarianism was no longer good enough to have
>>> a
>>> merit badge. Say what you will, but the organization's quite odd.
>>
>> I was never a scout. I don't think that scouting was all that odd when
>> I was a kid in the 70s. I believe that in the last 15-20 years or so
>> the BSA has more or less become an arm of the Mormon Church (or CJCLDS
>> as they prefer to be known). This alone accounts for any oddities that
>> might exist. I am fairly certain that Mormons take a dim view of
>> Unitarianism, and understandably so. Unitarianism denies the divinity
>> of Christ, which would be a rather direct affront to Mormonism (and
>> Christians in general). I can see how the BSA, as a self-proclaimed
>> Christian organization, would object to Unitarianism.
>
> And you explain the BSA religious activity awards to Baha'is, Buddhists,
> Hindus, Muslims, Jews, followers of Meher Baba, and Zoroastrians how?
>
> Just curious.
>
> Thanks for playing.
>
> Buck

Actually, there's a smellier reason why BSA rejected Unitarianism. The
religion doesn't make a habit of slamming gays.

[Fred Goodwin, CMA]

I replied, but redirected the discussion to:

rec.scouting.issues, alt.scouting, alt.atheism, alt.religion.christian

Thanx

[Eugene Miya]

In article <***@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Fred Goodwin, CMA <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I replied, but redirected the discussion to:
This is fine but machine syntax does not allow spaces, only
commas, between news groups.
>rec.scouting.issues, alt.scouting, alt.atheism, alt.religion.christian

Computer != English.

Carry on.

--

[notbob]

On 2006-05-17, JoeSpareBedroom <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 5 years ago, BSA decided Unitarianism was no longer good enough to have a
> merit badge. Say what you will, but the organization's quite odd.

I'm sure there were just oodles of gay people in the Scouts for years
and no one gave a goodgawddamn. What do you think happens to a buncha
boys that are just entering puberty and away from their parents, or
any adult for the most part, and out on some camping trip or summer
camp in the boonies for 3-14 days? I'll tell ya what. They all lay
around in their sleeping bags at night going, "Holy crap! ...what the
Hell was THAT!? Jay-suz, Russel, did you know about THAT?" The Scouts
can't get much gayer. But, it's just such an overhelming self
revelation, a young boy doesn't think much about whether he's gay or
not or the kid two bunks over is imagining diddling his winkie for
him. He just want's to tell all his buddies what a great thing he's
discovered. I mean, this is way better than any Red Ryder BB gun.

So, along comes a buncha gay militant adults in the United Way who
say, if you don't recognize the rights of gays, we're not going to
give you any money. Well, just what is it militant gay adults think a
buncha young boys are in need of? The right for boys who are barely
aware of their own sexuality to actually diddle one another? For gay
adults to diddle the kids? If they'd kept their damn mouths shut (no
pun intended) any potentially gay kids would have forever remained
anonymous in a non-mutually-tactile puberty-driven penile pajama
party, at no threat to one another or anyones's rights. But, nooooo!
We demand gay rights! So, now, everyone is painfully aware and the
lines have been drawn. The BSA ends up having to take a stand and all
the religious zealot nutcases in the organization come out of the
woodwork. Stupid poofters.

nb

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"notbob" <***@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:***@comcast.com...
> On 2006-05-17, JoeSpareBedroom <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> 5 years ago, BSA decided Unitarianism was no longer good enough to have a
>> merit badge. Say what you will, but the organization's quite odd.
>
> I'm sure there were just oodles of gay people in the Scouts for years
> and no one gave a goodgawddamn. What do you think happens to a buncha
> boys that are just entering puberty and away from their parents, or
> any adult for the most part, and out on some camping trip or summer
> camp in the boonies for 3-14 days? I'll tell ya what. They all lay
> around in their sleeping bags at night going, "Holy crap! ...what the
> Hell was THAT!? Jay-suz, Russel, did you know about THAT?" The Scouts
> can't get much gayer. But, it's just such an overhelming self
> revelation, a young boy doesn't think much about whether he's gay or
> not or the kid two bunks over is imagining diddling his winkie for
> him. He just want's to tell all his buddies what a great thing he's
> discovered. I mean, this is way better than any Red Ryder BB gun.
>
> So, along comes a buncha gay militant adults in the United Way who
> say, if you don't recognize the rights of gays, we're not going to
> give you any money. Well, just what is it militant gay adults think a
> buncha young boys are in need of? The right for boys who are barely
> aware of their own sexuality to actually diddle one another? For gay
> adults to diddle the kids? If they'd kept their damn mouths shut (no
> pun intended) any potentially gay kids would have forever remained
> anonymous in a non-mutually-tactile puberty-driven penile pajama
> party, at no threat to one another or anyones's rights. But, nooooo!
> We demand gay rights! So, now, everyone is painfully aware and the
> lines have been drawn. The BSA ends up having to take a stand and all
> the religious zealot nutcases in the organization come out of the
> woodwork. Stupid poofters.
>
> nb


I need to check your reality: What does all that gibberish, above, have to
do with my comment about Unitarians being specially excluded from the merit
badge list?

[notbob]

On 2006-05-17, JoeSpareBedroom <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I need to check your reality: What does all that gibberish, above, have to
> do with my comment about Unitarians being specially excluded from the merit
> badge list?

What? You think Unitarian's got the corner on the discrimination
market? Pay attention.

nb

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"notbob" <***@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:PrCdnerS4oAkH_bZRVn-***@comcast.com...
> On 2006-05-17, JoeSpareBedroom <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I need to check your reality: What does all that gibberish, above, have
>> to
>> do with my comment about Unitarians being specially excluded from the
>> merit
>> badge list?
>
> What? You think Unitarian's got the corner on the discrimination
> market? Pay attention.
>
> nb


Do you have any idea what I wrote earlier? BSA has a long list of religions
they accept. The kids can earn merit badges for doing whatever it is they
do. Even Muslims can earn merit badges. But, Unitarians have been removed
from the list. Do you know why?

[Emma Pease]

In article <FuLag.1383$***@news01.roc.ny>, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
> "notbob" <***@nothome.com> wrote in message
> news:PrCdnerS4oAkH_bZRVn-***@comcast.com...
>> On 2006-05-17, JoeSpareBedroom <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I need to check your reality: What does all that gibberish, above, have
>>> to
>>> do with my comment about Unitarians being specially excluded from the
>>> merit
>>> badge list?
>>
>> What? You think Unitarian's got the corner on the discrimination
>> market? Pay attention.
>>
>> nb
>
>
> Do you have any idea what I wrote earlier? BSA has a long list of religions
> they accept. The kids can earn merit badges for doing whatever it is they
> do. Even Muslims can earn merit badges. But, Unitarians have been removed
> from the list. Do you know why?

Few points

1. What is controversial is not merit badges but religious awards.
The religious awards are developed and administered by the religion.
The BSA just approves which ones can be worn on the Scouting uniform
and can be advertised in BSA literature (note that some religions
offer their award to youth members of other organizations such as
Campfire or Girl Scouts as well as the BSA). Boy Scout merit badges
are strictly internal to the BSA.

2. There is no requirement to earn a religious award and most scouts
don't earn one.

Now that that is out of the way. It is also true that

1. The BSA yanked approval for the two UU awards to be worn on
uniforms in the 1990s (there are separate ones for Boy Scouts and
Cubs) because of the wording of the accompanying literature for the
Boy Scout award (the Cub award had no controversial accompanying
literature but permission to wear was also yanked).

2. The BSA last spring has apparently approved a new UU religious
award for Boy Scouts;[1] however, the Unitarian Universalist
Association does not administer and has officially disavowed the new
award (a third party developed the award).

3. The BSA does require a belief in God (and not apparently in the
more general sense that the International Scouting organization
defines 'duty to God'). This excludes some UUs as well as other
non-theists who care about deception (admittedly many local troops are
broader minded).

Emma

ps. follow ups to rec.scouting.issues where this belongs.

[1] Apparently as in it being officially announced by a group that
coordinates many of the religious awards and works closely with the
BSA as being approved and it being advertised at last year's national
Jamboree but it is not on the BSA web page of religious awards.

--
\----
|\* | Emma Pease Net Spinster
|_\/ Die Luft der Freiheit weht

[aem]

notbob wrote:
>
> So, along comes a buncha gay militant adults in the United Way who
> say, if you don't recognize the rights of gays, we're not going to
> give you any money. [ long snip ] ....The BSA ends up having to take a stand and all
> the religious zealot nutcases in the organization come out of the
> woodwork. Stupid poofters.
>
So, if I read you correctly, the problem is not that the BSA
discriminates, but that they had to admit it publicly? Everything was
fine before those discriminated against spoke up? Nah, I think it's
better now that the BSA had to admit publicly that they exclude gays
and those who don't believe in a god. Those who are okay with that can
support them, and those who disagree can choose not to support them.
-aem

[notbob]

On 2006-05-17, aem <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

> So, if I read you correctly, the problem is not that the BSA
> discriminates, but that they had to admit it publicly? Everything was
> fine before those discriminated against spoke up?

Nope. You missed it too. Maybe I'm too tired and not explaining
myself well. Didn't sleep good last night. My point is the BSA never
discriminated against anything. When I was in the Scouts, you
could've been from Mars and no one would have cared. We had welfare
kids, migrant worker kids, I think even a Chinese kid. No one asked
us about God or religious affiliation or sexual preference. Young
boys didn't worry about such things. Maybe we were just naive in my
day.

nb

[Eugene Miya]

In article <***@comcast.com>,
notbob <***@nothome.com> wrote:
>On 2006-05-17, aem <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> So, if I read you correctly, the problem is not that the BSA
>> discriminates, but that they had to admit it publicly? Everything was
>> fine before those discriminated against spoke up?
>
>Nope. You missed it too. Maybe I'm too tired and not explaining
>myself well. Didn't sleep good last night. My point is the BSA never
>discriminated against anything. When I was in the Scouts, you
>could've been from Mars and no one would have cared. We had welfare
>kids, migrant worker kids, I think even a Chinese kid. No one asked
>us about God or religious affiliation or sexual preference. Young
>boys didn't worry about such things. Maybe we were just naive in my day.

Sure. Naive.
The 60s and 70s were a simpler time in some ways.

To be scientifically honest we would have to go back and ask any
Martian, welfare kid, migrant kid, Chinese kid. That's what tracking is for.
Ask the Girl Scouts.

--

[BE]

"notbob" <***@nothome.com> wrote in message

Well said notbob. Scouting was a great experience for me.

[-L.]

notbob wrote:
> On 2006-05-17, JoeSpareBedroom <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > 5 years ago, BSA decided Unitarianism was no longer good enough to have a
> > merit badge. Say what you will, but the organization's quite odd.
>
> I'm sure there were just oodles of gay people in the Scouts for years
> and no one gave a goodgawddamn. What do you think happens to a buncha
> boys that are just entering puberty and away from their parents, or
> any adult for the most part, and out on some camping trip or summer
> camp in the boonies for 3-14 days? I'll tell ya what. They all lay
> around in their sleeping bags at night going, "Holy crap! ...what the
> Hell was THAT!? Jay-suz, Russel, did you know about THAT?" The Scouts
> can't get much gayer. But, it's just such an overhelming self
> revelation, a young boy doesn't think much about whether he's gay or
> not

Don't kid yourself.
Many gay men realized they were gay or "different" (if they didn't have
a word for it) at a very young age. Many report having sensual and
sexual feelings toward other boys at a very young age.


>or the kid two bunks over is imagining diddling his winkie for
> him. He just want's to tell all his buddies what a great thing he's
> discovered. I mean, this is way better than any Red Ryder BB gun.
>
> So, along comes a buncha gay militant adults in the United Way who
> say, if you don't recognize the rights of gays, we're not going to
> give you any money. Well, just what is it militant gay adults think a
> buncha young boys are in need of? The right for boys who are barely
> aware of their own sexuality to actually diddle one another? For gay
> adults to diddle the kids? If they'd kept their damn mouths shut (no
> pun intended) any potentially gay kids would have forever remained
> anonymous in a non-mutually-tactile puberty-driven penile pajama
> party, at no threat to one another or anyones's rights. But, nooooo!
> We demand gay rights! So, now, everyone is painfully aware and the
> lines have been drawn. The BSA ends up having to take a stand and all
> the religious zealot nutcases in the organization come out of the
> woodwork. Stupid poofters.

It's about much more than disclosing one's sexuality. But if you
pulled your head out of your ass, you might have a clue...

Not to mention the fact that BSA discriminates agains Atheists and
Agnostics, as well as discounting Unitarianism.

Many people, myself included, don't want their child participating in
any group which openly discriminates. As a private organization, they
have the right to discriminate; and we have the right not to support
them, and to protest against their discrimination.

-L.

[notbob]

On 2006-05-18, -L. <***@peacemail.com> wrote:

> Many people, myself included, don't want their child participating in
> any group which openly discriminates.

Sounds like discrimination to me.

> have the right to discriminate; and we have the right not to support
> them, and to protest against their discrimination.

No doubt about it ...discrimination!

nb

[Dave Smith]

notbob wrote:

> On 2006-05-18, -L. <***@peacemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Many people, myself included, don't want their child participating in
> > any group which openly discriminates.
>
> Sounds like discrimination to me.
>
> > have the right to discriminate; and we have the right not to support
> > them, and to protest against their discrimination.
>
> No doubt about it ...discrimination!

Some groups are allowed to discriminate. You can have girls on boys sports
teams but you can't make the girls teams accept boys. You can have
scholarships for blacks but not for whites. You can have an organization
like the NAACP but white only groups are a nono. You can't have a service
club or a social club that exclude female members, but there are female
only clubs. We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.

[notbob]

On 2006-05-18, Dave Smith <***@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Some groups are allowed to discriminate.....

Yep! Typically groups that scream "discrimination" the loudest.

nb

[Dave Smith]

notbob wrote:

> On 2006-05-18, Dave Smith <***@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > Some groups are allowed to discriminate.....
>
> Yep! Typically groups that scream "discrimination" the loudest.
>

You noticed that too eh.
We want to be able to join your club, but because your grandfathers
wouldn't let our grandfathers join their club, you can't join ours.

[Food Snob]

Dave Smith wrote:

> We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
> people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.

Don't you think that nearly all of them would be?

--Bryan http://myspace.com/TheBonobos

[rick]

"Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
news:***@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
>> people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.
>
> Don't you think that nearly all of them would be?
> =========================
Why? You don't need to believe in a god to know a sickness when
you see it, eh?




> --Bryan http://myspace.com/TheBonobos
>

[Food Snob]

rick wrote:
> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
> news:***@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> >> We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
> >> people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.
> >
> > Don't you think that nearly all of them would be?
> > =========================
> Why? You don't need to believe in a god to know a sickness when
> you see it, eh?
>
So you think that people who are sexually attracted to people of their
own sex have a sickness?
>
> > --Bryan http://myspace.com/TheBonobos
> >
--Bryan

[rick]

"Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
news:***@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> rick wrote:
>> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
>> news:***@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Dave Smith wrote:
>> >
>> >> We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride
>> >> day
>> >> people would be screaming that they are all Christian
>> >> fundies.
>> >
>> > Don't you think that nearly all of them would be?
>> > =========================
>> Why? You don't need to believe in a god to know a sickness
>> when
>> you see it, eh?
>>
> So you think that people who are sexually attracted to people
> of their
> own sex have a sickness?
===========================
Of course, it serves no biological purpose, fool...



>>
>> > --Bryan http://myspace.com/TheBonobos
>> >
> --Bryan
>

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"rick" <***@stop.net> wrote in message
news:1tgbg.518$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
> news:***@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> rick wrote:
>>> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
>>> news:***@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>> >
>>> > Dave Smith wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
>>> >> people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.
>>> >
>>> > Don't you think that nearly all of them would be?
>>> > =========================
>>> Why? You don't need to believe in a god to know a sickness when
>>> you see it, eh?
>>>
>> So you think that people who are sexually attracted to people of their
>> own sex have a sickness?
> ===========================
> Of course, it serves no biological purpose, fool...
>> --Bryan

Neither do most of the things we do, like argue here.

[rick]

"JoeSpareBedroom" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%Chbg.1583$***@news01.roc.ny...
> "rick" <***@stop.net> wrote in message
> news:1tgbg.518$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
>> news:***@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> rick wrote:
>>>> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
>>>> news:***@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>> >
>>>> > Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride
>>>> >> day
>>>> >> people would be screaming that they are all Christian
>>>> >> fundies.
>>>> >
>>>> > Don't you think that nearly all of them would be?
>>>> > =========================
>>>> Why? You don't need to believe in a god to know a sickness
>>>> when
>>>> you see it, eh?
>>>>
>>> So you think that people who are sexually attracted to people
>>> of their
>>> own sex have a sickness?
>> ===========================
>> Of course, it serves no biological purpose, fool...
>>> --Bryan
>
> Neither do most of the things we do, like argue here.
=====================
Really? I'd say educating the willfully ignorant, such as
yourself, serves a bilological purpose.
even animals teach their young.



>
>

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"rick" <***@stop.net> wrote in message
news:TRhbg.2175$***@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:%Chbg.1583$***@news01.roc.ny...
>> "rick" <***@stop.net> wrote in message
>> news:1tgbg.518$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
>>> news:***@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> rick wrote:
>>>>> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
>>>>> news:***@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
>>>>> >> people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Don't you think that nearly all of them would be?
>>>>> > =========================
>>>>> Why? You don't need to believe in a god to know a sickness when
>>>>> you see it, eh?
>>>>>
>>>> So you think that people who are sexually attracted to people of their
>>>> own sex have a sickness?
>>> ===========================
>>> Of course, it serves no biological purpose, fool...
>>>> --Bryan
>>
>> Neither do most of the things we do, like argue here.
> =====================
> Really? I'd say educating the willfully ignorant, such as yourself,
> serves a bilological purpose.
> even animals teach their young.

For someone who's got nothing of value to say, you certainly spew a lot of
words.

[rick]

"JoeSpareBedroom" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3Vhbg.1586$***@news01.roc.ny...
> "rick" <***@stop.net> wrote in message
> news:TRhbg.2175$***@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "JoeSpareBedroom" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:%Chbg.1583$***@news01.roc.ny...
>>> "rick" <***@stop.net> wrote in message
>>> news:1tgbg.518$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
>>>> news:***@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> rick wrote:
>>>>>> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:***@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight
>>>>>> >> Pride day
>>>>>> >> people would be screaming that they are all Christian
>>>>>> >> fundies.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Don't you think that nearly all of them would be?
>>>>>> > =========================
>>>>>> Why? You don't need to believe in a god to know a
>>>>>> sickness when
>>>>>> you see it, eh?
>>>>>>
>>>>> So you think that people who are sexually attracted to
>>>>> people of their
>>>>> own sex have a sickness?
>>>> ===========================
>>>> Of course, it serves no biological purpose, fool...
>>>>> --Bryan
>>>
>>> Neither do most of the things we do, like argue here.
>> =====================
>> Really? I'd say educating the willfully ignorant, such as
>> yourself, serves a bilological purpose.
>> even animals teach their young.
>
> For someone who's got nothing of value to say, you certainly
> spew a lot of words.
==============================
Really? 2 dozen words is 'a lot of words' now, huh? Well, I
guess that would be to the remedial ones, eh?


>
>

[Bob Myers]

"rick" <***@stop.net> wrote in message
news:1tgbg.518$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Of course, it serves no biological purpose, fool...

Nor does the appendix, and yet the possession of one is
generally not classed as a "sickness." One can only assume
you're not engaged in the practice of medicine, correct?

Bob M.

[rick]

"Bob Myers" <***@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:nBnbg.834$***@news.cpqcorp.net...
>
> "rick" <***@stop.net> wrote in message
> news:1tgbg.518$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Of course, it serves no biological purpose, fool...
>
> Nor does the appendix, and yet the possession of one is
> generally not classed as a "sickness."
======================
Try rupturing it, then tell me it's not medical.


One can only assume
> you're not engaged in the practice of medicine, correct?
>
> Bob M.
>
>
>

[Dave Smith]

Food Snob wrote:

> Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
> > people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.
>
> Don't you think that nearly all of them would be?

There you go, jumping to conclusions. :-)

[-L.]

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> Some groups are allowed to discriminate. You can have girls on boys sports
> teams but you can't make the girls teams accept boys. You can have
> scholarships for blacks but not for whites. You can have an organization
> like the NAACP but white only groups are a nono. You can't have a service
> club or a social club that exclude female members, but there are female
> only clubs. We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
> people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.

You have no idea whatsoever what it means to be a minority.

-L.

[Food Snob]

-L. wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > Some groups are allowed to discriminate. You can have girls on boys sports
> > teams but you can't make the girls teams accept boys. You can have
> > scholarships for blacks but not for whites. You can have an organization
> > like the NAACP but white only groups are a nono. You can't have a service
> > club or a social club that exclude female members, but there are female
> > only clubs. We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
> > people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.
>
> You have no idea whatsoever what it means to be a minority.

I feel lucky to have been born a straight, White male. I understand
that that gives me unearned priveleges. Hey -L, check out the band's
page: http://MySpace.com/TheBonobos
>
> -L.

--Bryan

[-L.]

Food Snob wrote:
>
> I feel lucky to have been born a straight, White male. I understand
> that that gives me unearned priveleges. Hey -L, check out the band's
> page: http://MySpace.com/TheBonobos

Hey - dems my kinda politics and my kinda music. :) I was a first-gen
US punk in the 70's. It reminds me of another band - can't put my
finger on it quite yet...

-L.

[notbob]

On 2006-05-18, -L. <***@peacemail.com> wrote:

> Hey - dems my kinda politics........

What's that? Apologizing for being white?

nb

[Food Snob]

notbob wrote:
> On 2006-05-18, -L. <***@peacemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey - dems my kinda politics........
>
> What's that? Apologizing for being white?

Not at all, just understanding the history of race in America and its
legacy.
>
> nb

--Bryan

[-L.]

notbob wrote:
> On 2006-05-18, -L. <***@peacemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey - dems my kinda politics........
>
> What's that? Apologizing for being white?
>
> nb

Asshole. I am what you would undoubtedly call "white" although I am
ethnically mixed. I grew up in a demographically black area, in an
inner-city like environment. My highschool was 75% African American.
I have talked that way my entire life. Not until I had to "polish"
myself to get through White Corporate America did I change my diction.
When I am home with my own people, I speak my native language. I am
sorry it bothers you so much, but you know what? You can go fuck
yourself. Royally.

-L.

[notbob]

On 2006-05-19, -L. <***@peacemail.com> wrote:

> Asshole. I am.......

I think you might be on to something.

nb

[Steve Silberberg]

On Thu, 18 May 2006 11:14:33 -0400, Dave Smith
<***@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Some groups are allowed to discriminate. You can have girls on boys sports
>teams but you can't make the girls teams accept boys. You can have
>scholarships for blacks but not for whites. You can have an organization
>like the NAACP but white only groups are a nono. You can't have a service
>club or a social club that exclude female members, but there are female
>only clubs. We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
>people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.

You are obviously a white male who has never been part of any
minority. Furthermore, like a child in their early development stage,
cannot understand things from another point of view.

Regarding your examples, consider that there's no "Leprosy Free"
groups. The reason? Society at large is almost completely free of
lepers. So the group you propose is simply a mirror for what already
exists in society.

Oh, and Straight Pride day would most certainly be comprised of
Christian Fundies publicly trying to deny their gayness.



--------------
Steve Silberberg
mailto:***@alum.mit.edu
Read "We'll Kiss For Food"
http://www.kissforfood.com/

[Dave Smith]

Steve Silberberg wrote:

> On Thu, 18 May 2006 11:14:33 -0400, Dave Smith
> <***@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >Some groups are allowed to discriminate. You can have girls on boys sports
> >teams but you can't make the girls teams accept boys. You can have
> >scholarships for blacks but not for whites. You can have an organization
> >like the NAACP but white only groups are a nono. You can't have a service
> >club or a social club that exclude female members, but there are female
> >only clubs. We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
> >people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.
>
> You are obviously a white male who has never been part of any
> minority. Furthermore, like a child in their early development stage,
> cannot understand things from another point of view.

White male yes, but where do you get this nonsense about being like a child in
an early stage of development? I realize that you are trying to be insulting,
and you probably think it is a very clever insult, but it is just a silly
comment. I was merely making observations. If you think that I was inaccurate in
the observations I expressed, feel free to dispute them.

> Regarding your examples, consider that there's no "Leprosy Free"
> groups. The reason? Society at large is almost completely free of
> lepers. So the group you propose is simply a mirror for what already
> exists in society.
>
> Oh, and Straight Pride day would most certainly be comprised of
> Christian Fundies publicly trying to deny their gayness.

Obviously you are going to have trouble denying my suggestion that a Straight
Pride Day would elicit accusations that they were just Christian Fundies.

[Food Snob]

Steve Silberberg wrote:
> On Thu, 18 May 2006 11:14:33 -0400, Dave Smith
> <***@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >Some groups are allowed to discriminate. You can have girls on boys sports
> >teams but you can't make the girls teams accept boys. You can have
> >scholarships for blacks but not for whites. You can have an organization
> >like the NAACP but white only groups are a nono. You can't have a service
> >club or a social club that exclude female members, but there are female
> >only clubs. We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
> >people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.
>
> You are obviously a white male who has never been part of any
> minority. Furthermore, like a child in their early development stage,
> cannot understand things from another point of view.
>
> Regarding your examples, consider that there's no "Leprosy Free"
> groups. The reason? Society at large is almost completely free of
> lepers. So the group you propose is simply a mirror for what already
> exists in society.
>
> Oh, and Straight Pride day would most certainly be comprised of
> Christian Fundies publicly trying to deny their gayness.


We wake, we work
We sleep, we die
We vote, and hey
We learn to lie
We vote, we pray
Our kids aren't gay
I hope, I pray
My kid's not gay

And if you listen closely,
You can hear
The laughter of the rich
They like it when we call each other
Nigger, fag and bitch

And we fall
Divided we fall

--The Bonobos
>
> --------------
> Steve Silberberg

--Bryan

[-L.]

Dave Smith wrote:
<snip>

>We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
> people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.

The only people who would care enough to organize a Straight Pride day
would be those threatened by homosexuals. To date, the most vocal
group opposing equal rights for homosexuals has been the Religious
Right. That, you cannot deny.

-L.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"-L." <***@peacemail.com> wrote in message
news:***@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave Smith wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
>> people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.
>
> The only people who would care enough to organize a Straight Pride day
> would be those threatened by homosexuals. To date, the most vocal
> group opposing equal rights for homosexuals has been the Religious
> Right. That, you cannot deny.
>
> -L.
>

There's a gay male couple 3 houses down from mine. Once, they came home
really late and as they turned into their driveway, their lights shone into
my window and momentarily disturbed the cat. Those people are trouble.

[Dave Smith]

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

> "-L." <***@peacemail.com> wrote in message
> news:***@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Dave Smith wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> >>We have Gay Pride days but if there was a Straight Pride day
> >> people would be screaming that they are all Christian fundies.
> >
> > The only people who would care enough to organize a Straight Pride day
> > would be those threatened by homosexuals. To date, the most vocal
> > group opposing equal rights for homosexuals has been the Religious
> > Right. That, you cannot deny.
> >
> > -L.
> >
>
> There's a gay male couple 3 houses down from mine. Once, they came home
> really late and as they turned into their driveway, their lights shone into
> my window and momentarily disturbed the cat. Those people are trouble.

The thought would probably never occur to them if there were not a Gay Pride
day. Should they not have equal treatment?

[-L.]

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> The thought would probably never occur to them if there were not a Gay Pride
> day. Should they not have equal treatment?

I suspect you are replying to my post re: Gay Pride vs. Straight pride.
I'm not inclined to discuss this much futher with you because quite
frankly, you are wasting my time. If you want to talk about "equal
treatment" let's start with the right of gay people to legally marry
the person they love, the right to housing and other basic
necessitites, the right to make decisions for each other incase of
illness or death and a myriad of other rights YOU undoubtedly take for
granted.

You know, I once was seeking to rent a home with a female friend of
mine. The landlord on the phone was a complete asshole to me, and
really nasty, until she outright asked me if we were lesbians, and
when I said no, and described our relationship (coworkers, friends, one
engaged) to her, she completely changed her tune. That's when it hit
home to me - just a little bit - how hard day-to-day life must be for
gays and lesbians. I was 19 at the time - 1982.

When will you get your wake-up call?

-L.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"-L." <***@peacemail.com> wrote in message
news:***@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> The thought would probably never occur to them if there were not a Gay
>> Pride
>> day. Should they not have equal treatment?
>
> I suspect you are replying to my post re: Gay Pride vs. Straight pride.
> I'm not inclined to discuss this much futher with you because quite
> frankly, you are wasting my time. If you want to talk about "equal
> treatment" let's start with the right of gay people to legally marry
> the person they love, the right to housing and other basic
> necessitites, the right to make decisions for each other incase of
> illness or death and a myriad of other rights YOU undoubtedly take for
> granted.
>
> You know, I once was seeking to rent a home with a female friend of
> mine. The landlord on the phone was a complete asshole to me, and
> really nasty, until she outright asked me if we were lesbians, and
> when I said no, and described our relationship (coworkers, friends, one
> engaged) to her, she completely changed her tune. That's when it hit
> home to me - just a little bit - how hard day-to-day life must be for
> gays and lesbians. I was 19 at the time - 1982.
>
> When will you get your wake-up call?
>
> -L.

Imagine if you also had an accent which hinted that you might be (heaven
forbid) Puerto Rican.

[notbob]

On 2006-05-18, JoeSpareBedroom <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

> There's a gay male couple 3 houses down from mine. Once, they came home
> really late and as they turned into their driveway.....

Oh... I thought you were going to say they turned into fairies.

nb

[Food Snob]

notbob wrote:
> On 2006-05-18, JoeSpareBedroom <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > There's a gay male couple 3 houses down from mine. Once, they came home
> > really late and as they turned into their driveway.....
>
> Oh... I thought you were going to say they turned into fairies.

Growing up in the 60s it never occurred to me that Paul Lynde had same
sex desires. I just thought he seemed weird. I don't think I even
thought about homosexuality. Years later I can remembering wishing
that I were bi instead of straight because I'd have more fun, but alas,
the idea of a guy ejaculating in my mouth really turned/turns me off.
>
> nb

--Bryan

[notbob]

On 2006-05-19, Food Snob <***@BRICK.NET> wrote:
>
> Growing up in the 60s it never occurred to me that Paul Lynde had same

Paul Lynde turned into a driveway?

nb

[Brian Westley]

notbob <***@nothome.com> writes:

>On 2006-05-19, Food Snob <***@BRICK.NET> wrote:
>>
>> Growing up in the 60s it never occurred to me that Paul Lynde had same

>Paul Lynde turned into a driveway?

No, that was Jimmy Hoffa.

---
Merlyn LeRoy

[notbob]

On 2006-05-19, Brian Westley <***@visi.com> wrote:

> No, that was Jimmy Hoffa.

LOL!.......

nb

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"Brian Westley" <***@visi.com> wrote in message
news:***@corp.supernews.com...
> notbob <***@nothome.com> writes:
>
>>On 2006-05-19, Food Snob <***@BRICK.NET> wrote:
>>>
>>> Growing up in the 60s it never occurred to me that Paul Lynde had same
>
>>Paul Lynde turned into a driveway?
>
> No, that was Jimmy Hoffa.
>
> ---
> Merlyn LeRoy

Today's NY Times says the FBI's searching the grounds of a horse farm in
Michigan. Talk about having too much time on their hands.....

[Eugene Miya]

>>>driveway?
>> No, that was Jimmy Hoffa.

In article <s3obg.1468$***@news02.roc.ny>,
JoeSpareBedroom <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Today's NY Times says the FBI's searching the grounds of a horse farm in
>Michigan. Talk about having too much time on their hands.....

That is FBI culture for you.

Followups reduced.

--

[pmhilton]

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

>
> There's a gay male couple 3 houses down from mine. Once, they came home
> really late and as they turned into their driveway, their lights shone into
> my window and momentarily disturbed the cat. Those people are trouble.
>
>

So who's your cat's lawyer?

Pete H

[Steve Silberberg]

On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:01:01 -0500, notbob <***@nothome.com> wrote:

>On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>> discriminates in egregious ways.
>
>and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
>Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
>schools and currency are more religious.

Before my Eagle Scout Board of Review, I was told that the only reason
anyone was ever turned down for the rank of Eagle Scout once they got
that far in Scouting, is if they told the board that they didn't
believe in God.
--------------
Steve Silberberg
mailto:***@alum.mit.edu
Read "We'll Kiss For Food"
http://www.kissforfood.com/

[Buck]

"Steve Silberberg" <***@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:01:01 -0500, notbob <***@nothome.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>>> discriminates in egregious ways.
>>
>>and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
>>Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
>>schools and currency are more religious.
>
> Before my Eagle Scout Board of Review, I was told that the only reason
> anyone was ever turned down for the rank of Eagle Scout once they got
> that far in Scouting, is if they told the board that they didn't
> believe in God.

If you don't believe in Gosh, you'll be darned to heck!

Take my word for it.

Buck


> --------------
> Steve Silberberg
> mailto:***@alum.mit.edu
> Read "We'll Kiss For Food"
> http://www.kissforfood.com/

[Food Snob]

Buck wrote:
> "Steve Silberberg" <***@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:01:01 -0500, notbob <***@nothome.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> >>> discriminates in egregious ways.
> >>
> >>and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
> >>Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
> >>schools and currency are more religious.
> >
> > Before my Eagle Scout Board of Review, I was told that the only reason
> > anyone was ever turned down for the rank of Eagle Scout once they got
> > that far in Scouting, is if they told the board that they didn't
> > believe in God.

Back in 2000 someone touted the "camping" aspect of scouting. I
replied,
"Oh, you know that I LOVE camping. My kids will likely go camping far
more often than the average scout. Yet they will not have to:
1. Pay homage to a government that has supported neo-fascism in the
Third World.
2. Claim to have a belief in a god, if they happen to not believe.
3. Be kept away from others of the opposite sex during adolescence.
4. Pretend that they are heterosexual if they are not.
5. If they are boys, sleep in a small pup tent with another guy (*ick*
if they do happen to be heterosexual like their dear old dad).
6. Respect others merely for their position in society, rather than for
their character.
7. Wear those totally DORKY uniforms."

"When I was in 5th grade, we moved to a new neighborhood, although it
was
still the same elementary school. My new neighbor kept asking me to go
to a Boy Scout meeting, just to see if I liked it.

I refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, and one of the leaders
asked me why--he probably thought it was a religious thing--and got an
earful about the Viet Nam War, and the rich people sending poor kids to
die and kill innocent villagers.

The next day, on the school bus, my neighbor informed me that I was
persona non grata at the Boy Scout meetings.

To me, that flag is the flag of Joe McCarthy. It is the flag that
installed the dictator, Pinochet. It is the flag of Agent Orange. It
is the flag that flies over the School of the Americas, where the U.S.
military trained Central American soldiers in how to commit atrocities
for the greater good, "the greater good" being capitalism.
Again, it is the flag under which thousands of poor kids were forced to
go to Viet Nam to kill and be killed, while the kids of the fat cats
were safe on college deferments."

I might add here that the sons of the rich were availing themselves of
the daughters of the working class, getting their dicks wet, while
those girls' brothers were being led to slaughter to uphold that
inequity.
>
> If you don't believe in Gosh, you'll be darned to heck!
>
> Take my word for it.

"As long as they continue to dictate personal morality at the point of
a
gun, they will be my enemies, and I will fight them by encouraging
their
sons and daughters to reject and ridicule everything that they hold
sacred."
--all quoted text--source--Bobo Bonobo in rec.scouting.usa, 3-6-00
>
> Buck
>
>
> > --------------
> > Steve Silberberg

--Bryan

[Buck]

"Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
news:***@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> Buck wrote:
>> "Steve Silberberg" <***@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
>> news:***@4ax.com...
>> > On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:01:01 -0500, notbob <***@nothome.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>> >>> discriminates in egregious ways.
>> >>
>> >>and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
>> >>Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
>> >>schools and currency are more religious.
>> >
>> > Before my Eagle Scout Board of Review, I was told that the only reason
>> > anyone was ever turned down for the rank of Eagle Scout once they got
>> > that far in Scouting, is if they told the board that they didn't
>> > believe in God.
>
> Back in 2000 someone touted the "camping" aspect of scouting. I
> replied,
> "Oh, you know that I LOVE camping. My kids will likely go camping far
> more often than the average scout. Yet they will not have to:
> 1. Pay homage to a government that has supported neo-fascism in the
> Third World.
> 2. Claim to have a belief in a god, if they happen to not believe.
> 3. Be kept away from others of the opposite sex during adolescence.
> 4. Pretend that they are heterosexual if they are not.
> 5. If they are boys, sleep in a small pup tent with another guy (*ick*
> if they do happen to be heterosexual like their dear old dad).
> 6. Respect others merely for their position in society, rather than for
> their character.
> 7. Wear those totally DORKY uniforms."
>
> "When I was in 5th grade, we moved to a new neighborhood, although it
> was
> still the same elementary school. My new neighbor kept asking me to go
> to a Boy Scout meeting, just to see if I liked it.
>
> I refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, and one of the leaders
> asked me why--he probably thought it was a religious thing--and got an
> earful about the Viet Nam War, and the rich people sending poor kids to
> die and kill innocent villagers.

As one of those "poor kids" (White, middle class, Stanford graduate) who was
sent (volunteered, actually) to the Republic of Viet Nam by a Democrat
President, House of Representatives and Senate, I would like to state that I
didn't kill ANY "villagers", but kept plenty of innocent people from being
fucked over by the Viet Cong.

I would also like to burst the 'poor, black, latino' cannon fodder myth.

The only societal group that served, engaged in combat, was wounded and/or
killed in numbers positively disproportionate to their representation in
society were white, college educated, middle class males.

Thanks for playing.

Buck


>
> The next day, on the school bus, my neighbor informed me that I was
> persona non grata at the Boy Scout meetings.
>
> To me, that flag is the flag of Joe McCarthy. It is the flag that
> installed the dictator, Pinochet. It is the flag of Agent Orange. It
> is the flag that flies over the School of the Americas, where the U.S.
> military trained Central American soldiers in how to commit atrocities
> for the greater good, "the greater good" being capitalism.
> Again, it is the flag under which thousands of poor kids were forced to
> go to Viet Nam to kill and be killed, while the kids of the fat cats
> were safe on college deferments."
>
> I might add here that the sons of the rich were availing themselves of
> the daughters of the working class, getting their dicks wet, while
> those girls' brothers were being led to slaughter to uphold that
> inequity.
>>
>> If you don't believe in Gosh, you'll be darned to heck!
>>
>> Take my word for it.
>
> "As long as they continue to dictate personal morality at the point of
> a
> gun, they will be my enemies, and I will fight them by encouraging
> their
> sons and daughters to reject and ridicule everything that they hold
> sacred."
> --all quoted text--source--Bobo Bonobo in rec.scouting.usa, 3-6-00
>>
>> Buck
>>
>>
>> > --------------
>> > Steve Silberberg
>
> --Bryan
>

[Food Snob]

Buck wrote:
> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
> news:***@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Buck wrote:
> >> "Steve Silberberg" <***@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
> >> news:***@4ax.com...
> >> > On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:01:01 -0500, notbob <***@nothome.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> >> >>> discriminates in egregious ways.
> >> >>
> >> >>and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
> >> >>Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
> >> >>schools and currency are more religious.
> >> >
> >> > Before my Eagle Scout Board of Review, I was told that the only reason
> >> > anyone was ever turned down for the rank of Eagle Scout once they got
> >> > that far in Scouting, is if they told the board that they didn't
> >> > believe in God.
> >
> > Back in 2000 someone touted the "camping" aspect of scouting. I
> > replied,
> > "Oh, you know that I LOVE camping. My kids will likely go camping far
> > more often than the average scout. Yet they will not have to:
> > 1. Pay homage to a government that has supported neo-fascism in the
> > Third World.
> > 2. Claim to have a belief in a god, if they happen to not believe.
> > 3. Be kept away from others of the opposite sex during adolescence.
> > 4. Pretend that they are heterosexual if they are not.
> > 5. If they are boys, sleep in a small pup tent with another guy (*ick*
> > if they do happen to be heterosexual like their dear old dad).
> > 6. Respect others merely for their position in society, rather than for
> > their character.
> > 7. Wear those totally DORKY uniforms."
> >
> > "When I was in 5th grade, we moved to a new neighborhood, although it
> > was
> > still the same elementary school. My new neighbor kept asking me to go
> > to a Boy Scout meeting, just to see if I liked it.
> >
> > I refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, and one of the leaders
> > asked me why--he probably thought it was a religious thing--and got an
> > earful about the Viet Nam War, and the rich people sending poor kids to
> > die and kill innocent villagers.
>
> As one of those "poor kids" (White, middle class, Stanford graduate) who was
> sent (volunteered, actually) to the Republic of Viet Nam by a Democrat
> President, House of Representatives and Senate, I would like to state that I
> didn't kill ANY "villagers", but kept plenty of innocent people from being
> fucked over by the Viet Cong.

I certainly didn't accuse you of commiting atrocities. The Democrats
were fucking cowards. Johnson and the Congress cared more about
keeping their majority than acting ethically. They thought that a
soft-on-Communism label would doom both their electoral future, and
their ability to achieve their other goals like civil rights and the
"great Society."
>
> I would also like to burst the 'poor, black, latino' cannon fodder myth.
>
> The only societal group that served, engaged in combat, was wounded and/or
> killed in numbers positively disproportionate to their representation in
> society were white, college educated, middle class males.

I don't know the numbers, and if you make that claim, perhaps you
should cite a source.
I was referring to draftees, not volunteers.
>
> Thanks for playing.

What did it all accomplish? The Viet Cong were as much nationalist as
"Communist." Maybe if we'd stayed out there would have never been a
Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. If "Communism" was so undesirable, then it
would have fallen because of its own weaknesses, as indeed it did.
"Give 'em enough rope" works both ways. Extreme Capitalism and extreme
Socialism are crappy ways to run an economy. The Apollo program was a
much better way to show up the commies than making war.

Are you really going to try to justify the policy of college
deferrments?

I'm glad that you want to play with me.
>
> Buck
>
--Bryan
> >
> > The next day, on the school bus, my neighbor informed me that I was
> > persona non grata at the Boy Scout meetings.
> >
> > To me, that flag is the flag of Joe McCarthy. It is the flag that
> > installed the dictator, Pinochet. It is the flag of Agent Orange. It
> > is the flag that flies over the School of the Americas, where the U.S.
> > military trained Central American soldiers in how to commit atrocities
> > for the greater good, "the greater good" being capitalism.
> > Again, it is the flag under which thousands of poor kids were forced to
> > go to Viet Nam to kill and be killed, while the kids of the fat cats
> > were safe on college deferments."
> >
> > I might add here that the sons of the rich were availing themselves of
> > the daughters of the working class, getting their dicks wet, while
> > those girls' brothers were being led to slaughter to uphold that
> > inequity.
> >>
> >> If you don't believe in Gosh, you'll be darned to heck!
> >>
> >> Take my word for it.
> >
> > "As long as they continue to dictate personal morality at the point of
> > a
> > gun, they will be my enemies, and I will fight them by encouraging
> > their
> > sons and daughters to reject and ridicule everything that they hold
> > sacred."
> > --all quoted text--source--Bobo Bonobo in rec.scouting.usa, 3-6-00
> >>
> >> Buck
> >>
> >>
> >> > --------------
> >> > Steve Silberberg
> >
> > --Bryan
> >

[rick]

"Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
news:***@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Buck wrote:
>> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
>> news:***@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Buck wrote:
>> >> "Steve Silberberg" <***@alum.mit.edu> wrote in
>> >> message
>> >> news:***@4ax.com...
>> >> > On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:01:01 -0500, notbob
>> >> > <***@nothome.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton
>> >> >><***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization
>> >> >>> that
>> >> >>> discriminates in egregious ways.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination
>> >> >>was citing the
>> >> >>Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...".
>> >> >>Ferchrysakes, our
>> >> >>schools and currency are more religious.
>> >> >
>> >> > Before my Eagle Scout Board of Review, I was told that
>> >> > the only reason
>> >> > anyone was ever turned down for the rank of Eagle Scout
>> >> > once they got
>> >> > that far in Scouting, is if they told the board that they
>> >> > didn't
>> >> > believe in God.
>> >
>> > Back in 2000 someone touted the "camping" aspect of
>> > scouting. I
>> > replied,
>> > "Oh, you know that I LOVE camping. My kids will likely go
>> > camping far
>> > more often than the average scout. Yet they will not have
>> > to:
>> > 1. Pay homage to a government that has supported neo-fascism
>> > in the
>> > Third World.
>> > 2. Claim to have a belief in a god, if they happen to not
>> > believe.
>> > 3. Be kept away from others of the opposite sex during
>> > adolescence.
>> > 4. Pretend that they are heterosexual if they are not.
>> > 5. If they are boys, sleep in a small pup tent with another
>> > guy (*ick*
>> > if they do happen to be heterosexual like their dear old
>> > dad).
>> > 6. Respect others merely for their position in society,
>> > rather than for
>> > their character.
>> > 7. Wear those totally DORKY uniforms."
>> >
>> > "When I was in 5th grade, we moved to a new neighborhood,
>> > although it
>> > was
>> > still the same elementary school. My new neighbor kept
>> > asking me to go
>> > to a Boy Scout meeting, just to see if I liked it.
>> >
>> > I refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, and one of
>> > the leaders
>> > asked me why--he probably thought it was a religious
>> > thing--and got an
>> > earful about the Viet Nam War, and the rich people sending
>> > poor kids to
>> > die and kill innocent villagers.
=======================
Ignorant even then, and you've done nothing to fix that problem
ever since, eh?



>>
>> As one of those "poor kids" (White, middle class, Stanford
>> graduate) who was
>> sent (volunteered, actually) to the Republic of Viet Nam by a
>> Democrat
>> President, House of Representatives and Senate, I would like
>> to state that I
>> didn't kill ANY "villagers", but kept plenty of innocent
>> people from being
>> fucked over by the Viet Cong.
>
> I certainly didn't accuse you of commiting atrocities. The
> Democrats
> were fucking cowards. Johnson and the Congress cared more
> about
> keeping their majority than acting ethically. They thought
> that a
> soft-on-Communism label would doom both their electoral future,
> and
> their ability to achieve their other goals like civil rights
> and the
> "great Society."
>>
>> I would also like to burst the 'poor, black, latino' cannon
>> fodder myth.
>>
>> The only societal group that served, engaged in combat, was
>> wounded and/or
>> killed in numbers positively disproportionate to their
>> representation in
>> society were white, college educated, middle class males.
>
> I don't know the numbers, and if you make that claim, perhaps
> you
> should cite a source.
> I was referring to draftees, not volunteers.
==================================
Why? Overall, 70% of vietnam casualties were volunteers. means
that your typical ignorant spew doesn't work unless you make all
kinds of 'exceptions' to validate you spew, eh?

There were a significant number of the poorest, least qualified
men that were made 'test subjects' by the demos in office at the
time. The Army did not want to be part of it, but were forcred
to accept a number of the lowest scoring draftees as a program to
'help' these people overcome their disadvantages. Why did you
not protest those actions? Because they were being promoted by
your choice of politicians?


The data are there, for those that really want the truth. but we
know there are those, like you, that prefer their ignorance and
prejudice, eh?


>>
>> Thanks for playing.
>
> What did it all accomplish? The Viet Cong were as much
> nationalist as
> "Communist." Maybe if we'd stayed out there would have never
> been a
> Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. If "Communism" was so undesirable,
> then it
> would have fallen because of its own weaknesses, as indeed it
> did.
> "Give 'em enough rope" works both ways. Extreme Capitalism and
> extreme
> Socialism are crappy ways to run an economy. The Apollo
> program was a
> much better way to show up the commies than making war.
>
> Are you really going to try to justify the policy of college
> deferrments?
>
> I'm glad that you want to play with me.
>>
>> Buck
>>
> --Bryan
>> >
>> > The next day, on the school bus, my neighbor informed me
>> > that I was
>> > persona non grata at the Boy Scout meetings.
>> >
>> > To me, that flag is the flag of Joe McCarthy. It is the
>> > flag that
>> > installed the dictator, Pinochet. It is the flag of Agent
>> > Orange. It
>> > is the flag that flies over the School of the Americas,
>> > where the U.S.
>> > military trained Central American soldiers in how to commit
>> > atrocities
>> > for the greater good, "the greater good" being capitalism.
>> > Again, it is the flag under which thousands of poor kids
>> > were forced to
>> > go to Viet Nam to kill and be killed, while the kids of the
>> > fat cats
>> > were safe on college deferments."
>> >
>> > I might add here that the sons of the rich were availing
>> > themselves of
>> > the daughters of the working class, getting their dicks wet,
>> > while
>> > those girls' brothers were being led to slaughter to uphold
>> > that
>> > inequity.
>> >>
>> >> If you don't believe in Gosh, you'll be darned to heck!
>> >>
>> >> Take my word for it.
>> >
>> > "As long as they continue to dictate personal morality at
>> > the point of
>> > a
>> > gun, they will be my enemies, and I will fight them by
>> > encouraging
>> > their
>> > sons and daughters to reject and ridicule everything that
>> > they hold
>> > sacred."
>> > --all quoted text--source--Bobo Bonobo in rec.scouting.usa,
>> > 3-6-00
>> >>
>> >> Buck
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > --------------
>> >> > Steve Silberberg
>> >
>> > --Bryan
>> >
>

[Buck]

"Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
news:***@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Buck wrote:
>> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
>> news:***@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Buck wrote:
>> >> "Steve Silberberg" <***@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
>> >> news:***@4ax.com...
>> >> > On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:01:01 -0500, notbob <***@nothome.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>> >> >>> discriminates in egregious ways.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing
>> >> >>the
>> >> >>Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
>> >> >>schools and currency are more religious.
>> >> >
>> >> > Before my Eagle Scout Board of Review, I was told that the only
>> >> > reason
>> >> > anyone was ever turned down for the rank of Eagle Scout once they
>> >> > got
>> >> > that far in Scouting, is if they told the board that they didn't
>> >> > believe in God.
>> >
>> > Back in 2000 someone touted the "camping" aspect of scouting. I
>> > replied,
>> > "Oh, you know that I LOVE camping. My kids will likely go camping far
>> > more often than the average scout. Yet they will not have to:
>> > 1. Pay homage to a government that has supported neo-fascism in the
>> > Third World.
>> > 2. Claim to have a belief in a god, if they happen to not believe.
>> > 3. Be kept away from others of the opposite sex during adolescence.
>> > 4. Pretend that they are heterosexual if they are not.
>> > 5. If they are boys, sleep in a small pup tent with another guy (*ick*
>> > if they do happen to be heterosexual like their dear old dad).
>> > 6. Respect others merely for their position in society, rather than for
>> > their character.
>> > 7. Wear those totally DORKY uniforms."
>> >
>> > "When I was in 5th grade, we moved to a new neighborhood, although it
>> > was
>> > still the same elementary school. My new neighbor kept asking me to go
>> > to a Boy Scout meeting, just to see if I liked it.
>> >
>> > I refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, and one of the leaders
>> > asked me why--he probably thought it was a religious thing--and got an
>> > earful about the Viet Nam War, and the rich people sending poor kids to
>> > die and kill innocent villagers.
>>
>> As one of those "poor kids" (White, middle class, Stanford graduate) who
>> was
>> sent (volunteered, actually) to the Republic of Viet Nam by a Democrat
>> President, House of Representatives and Senate, I would like to state
>> that I
>> didn't kill ANY "villagers", but kept plenty of innocent people from
>> being
>> fucked over by the Viet Cong.
>
> I certainly didn't accuse you of commiting atrocities. The Democrats
> were fucking cowards. Johnson and the Congress cared more about
> keeping their majority than acting ethically. They thought that a
> soft-on-Communism label would doom both their electoral future, and
> their ability to achieve their other goals like civil rights and the
> "great Society."
>>
>> I would also like to burst the 'poor, black, latino' cannon fodder myth.
>>
>> The only societal group that served, engaged in combat, was wounded
>> and/or
>> killed in numbers positively disproportionate to their representation in
>> society were white, college educated, middle class males.
>
> I don't know the numbers, and if you make that claim, perhaps you
> should cite a source.
> I was referring to draftees, not volunteers.

You didn't say that.

You can't change the rules after the kick off.

Thanks for playing.

Buck

>>
>> Thanks for playing.
>
> What did it all accomplish? The Viet Cong were as much nationalist as
> "Communist." Maybe if we'd stayed out there would have never been a
> Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. If "Communism" was so undesirable, then it
> would have fallen because of its own weaknesses, as indeed it did.
> "Give 'em enough rope" works both ways. Extreme Capitalism and extreme
> Socialism are crappy ways to run an economy. The Apollo program was a
> much better way to show up the commies than making war.
>
> Are you really going to try to justify the policy of college
> deferrments?
>
> I'm glad that you want to play with me.
>>
>> Buck
>>
> --Bryan
>> >
>> > The next day, on the school bus, my neighbor informed me that I was
>> > persona non grata at the Boy Scout meetings.
>> >
>> > To me, that flag is the flag of Joe McCarthy. It is the flag that
>> > installed the dictator, Pinochet. It is the flag of Agent Orange. It
>> > is the flag that flies over the School of the Americas, where the U.S.
>> > military trained Central American soldiers in how to commit atrocities
>> > for the greater good, "the greater good" being capitalism.
>> > Again, it is the flag under which thousands of poor kids were forced to
>> > go to Viet Nam to kill and be killed, while the kids of the fat cats
>> > were safe on college deferments."
>> >
>> > I might add here that the sons of the rich were availing themselves of
>> > the daughters of the working class, getting their dicks wet, while
>> > those girls' brothers were being led to slaughter to uphold that
>> > inequity.
>> >>
>> >> If you don't believe in Gosh, you'll be darned to heck!
>> >>
>> >> Take my word for it.
>> >
>> > "As long as they continue to dictate personal morality at the point of
>> > a
>> > gun, they will be my enemies, and I will fight them by encouraging
>> > their
>> > sons and daughters to reject and ridicule everything that they hold
>> > sacred."
>> > --all quoted text--source--Bobo Bonobo in rec.scouting.usa, 3-6-00
>> >>
>> >> Buck
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > --------------
>> >> > Steve Silberberg
>> >
>> > --Bryan
>> >
>

[Food Snob]

Buck wrote:
> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
> news:***@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Buck wrote:
> >> "Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
> >> news:***@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Buck wrote:
> >> >> "Steve Silberberg" <***@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
> >> >> news:***@4ax.com...
> >> >> > On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:01:01 -0500, notbob <***@nothome.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> >> >> >>> discriminates in egregious ways.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing
> >> >> >>the
> >> >> >>Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
> >> >> >>schools and currency are more religious.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Before my Eagle Scout Board of Review, I was told that the only
> >> >> > reason
> >> >> > anyone was ever turned down for the rank of Eagle Scout once they
> >> >> > got
> >> >> > that far in Scouting, is if they told the board that they didn't
> >> >> > believe in God.
> >> >
> >> > Back in 2000 someone touted the "camping" aspect of scouting. I
> >> > replied,
> >> > "Oh, you know that I LOVE camping. My kids will likely go camping far
> >> > more often than the average scout. Yet they will not have to:
> >> > 1. Pay homage to a government that has supported neo-fascism in the
> >> > Third World.
> >> > 2. Claim to have a belief in a god, if they happen to not believe.
> >> > 3. Be kept away from others of the opposite sex during adolescence.
> >> > 4. Pretend that they are heterosexual if they are not.
> >> > 5. If they are boys, sleep in a small pup tent with another guy (*ick*
> >> > if they do happen to be heterosexual like their dear old dad).
> >> > 6. Respect others merely for their position in society, rather than for
> >> > their character.
> >> > 7. Wear those totally DORKY uniforms."
> >> >
> >> > "When I was in 5th grade, we moved to a new neighborhood, although it
> >> > was
> >> > still the same elementary school. My new neighbor kept asking me to go
> >> > to a Boy Scout meeting, just to see if I liked it.
> >> >
> >> > I refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, and one of the leaders
> >> > asked me why--he probably thought it was a religious thing--and got an
> >> > earful about the Viet Nam War, and the rich people sending poor kids to
> >> > die and kill innocent villagers.
> >>
> >> As one of those "poor kids" (White, middle class, Stanford graduate) who
> >> was
> >> sent (volunteered, actually) to the Republic of Viet Nam by a Democrat
> >> President, House of Representatives and Senate, I would like to state
> >> that I
> >> didn't kill ANY "villagers", but kept plenty of innocent people from
> >> being
> >> fucked over by the Viet Cong.
> >
> > I certainly didn't accuse you of commiting atrocities. The Democrats
> > were fucking cowards. Johnson and the Congress cared more about
> > keeping their majority than acting ethically. They thought that a
> > soft-on-Communism label would doom both their electoral future, and
> > their ability to achieve their other goals like civil rights and the
> > "great Society."
> >>
> >> I would also like to burst the 'poor, black, latino' cannon fodder myth.
> >>
> >> The only societal group that served, engaged in combat, was wounded
> >> and/or
> >> killed in numbers positively disproportionate to their representation in
> >> society were white, college educated, middle class males.
> >
> > I don't know the numbers, and if you make that claim, perhaps you
> > should cite a source.
> > I was referring to draftees, not volunteers.
>
> You didn't say that.
>
> You can't change the rules after the kick off.

I wrote, "rich people sending poor kids."

You weren't "sent." You were fucking stupid enough to go willingly.

I can't think of any other reason I'd do it, but if they tried to draft
my ass, I'd have seven different dicks in my mouth in front of seven
different cameras quicker than you could say, "Don't ask. Don't tell."

>
> Thanks for playing.

You're welcome.
>
> Buck
>
--Bryan
> >>
> >> Thanks for playing.
> >
> > What did it all accomplish? The Viet Cong were as much nationalist as
> > "Communist." Maybe if we'd stayed out there would have never been a
> > Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. If "Communism" was so undesirable, then it
> > would have fallen because of its own weaknesses, as indeed it did.
> > "Give 'em enough rope" works both ways. Extreme Capitalism and extreme
> > Socialism are crappy ways to run an economy. The Apollo program was a
> > much better way to show up the commies than making war.
> >
> > Are you really going to try to justify the policy of college
> > deferrments?
> >
> > I'm glad that you want to play with me.
> >>
> >> Buck
> >>
> > --Bryan
> >> >
> >> > The next day, on the school bus, my neighbor informed me that I was
> >> > persona non grata at the Boy Scout meetings.
> >> >
> >> > To me, that flag is the flag of Joe McCarthy. It is the flag that
> >> > installed the dictator, Pinochet. It is the flag of Agent Orange. It
> >> > is the flag that flies over the School of the Americas, where the U.S.
> >> > military trained Central American soldiers in how to commit atrocities
> >> > for the greater good, "the greater good" being capitalism.
> >> > Again, it is the flag under which thousands of poor kids were forced to
> >> > go to Viet Nam to kill and be killed, while the kids of the fat cats
> >> > were safe on college deferments."
> >> >
> >> > I might add here that the sons of the rich were availing themselves of
> >> > the daughters of the working class, getting their dicks wet, while
> >> > those girls' brothers were being led to slaughter to uphold that
> >> > inequity.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you don't believe in Gosh, you'll be darned to heck!
> >> >>
> >> >> Take my word for it.
> >> >
> >> > "As long as they continue to dictate personal morality at the point of
> >> > a
> >> > gun, they will be my enemies, and I will fight them by encouraging
> >> > their
> >> > sons and daughters to reject and ridicule everything that they hold
> >> > sacred."
> >> > --all quoted text--source--Bobo Bonobo in rec.scouting.usa, 3-6-00
> >> >>
> >> >> Buck
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > --------------
> >> >> > Steve Silberberg
> >> >
> >> > --Bryan
> >> >
> >

[Blair P. Houghton]

Food Snob wrote:
> I wrote, "rich people sending poor kids."

Even the volunteers are there because they can't afford to live without
that job.

> You weren't "sent." You were fucking stupid enough to go willingly.

People are like that sometimes.

> I can't think of any other reason I'd do it, but if they tried to draft
> my ass, I'd have seven different dicks in my mouth in front of seven
> different cameras quicker than you could say, "Don't ask. Don't tell."

When the draft comes, the homosexual exemption will end, and formal
segregation will begin.

You and your seven friends would then be formed into the first all-gay
squad in American military history.

The reason the military doesn't want gays is that they don't know how
to manage people who are in combat and fucking each other at the same
time. But once it becomes clear they'll have to, they'll develop the
procedures.

And my guess is, they'll use the emotional content of those
relationships to enhance esprit de corps, and send those squads into
battle first. Ever heard Marines talk about their buddies? Even if
they aren't fucking each other, they are deeply into each other in a
spiritual way that can only be likened to a loving bond.

And the military knows exactly how to amplify and manipulate that to
get the results it wants.

It just doesn't have a part number for the version that applies to
all-gay squads, yet.

--Blair

[notbob]

On 2006-05-19, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> It just doesn't have a part number for the version that applies to
> all-gay squads, yet.

LOL! I can see it now.

Dick's dick: Reproductive Insertion Tool MA1A, Mil-Spec.........

nb

[Buck]

You are such a fucking moron!

You can't use your fantasies as a template for reality.

What a hopeless asshole

But.................................Thanks for playing.\

Buck


"Blair P. Houghton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Food Snob wrote:
>> I wrote, "rich people sending poor kids."
>
> Even the volunteers are there because they can't afford to live without
> that job.
>
>> You weren't "sent." You were fucking stupid enough to go willingly.
>
> People are like that sometimes.
>
>> I can't think of any other reason I'd do it, but if they tried to draft
>> my ass, I'd have seven different dicks in my mouth in front of seven
>> different cameras quicker than you could say, "Don't ask. Don't tell."
>
> When the draft comes, the homosexual exemption will end, and formal
> segregation will begin.
>
> You and your seven friends would then be formed into the first all-gay
> squad in American military history.
>
> The reason the military doesn't want gays is that they don't know how
> to manage people who are in combat and fucking each other at the same
> time. But once it becomes clear they'll have to, they'll develop the
> procedures.
>
> And my guess is, they'll use the emotional content of those
> relationships to enhance esprit de corps, and send those squads into
> battle first. Ever heard Marines talk about their buddies? Even if
> they aren't fucking each other, they are deeply into each other in a
> spiritual way that can only be likened to a loving bond.
>
> And the military knows exactly how to amplify and manipulate that to
> get the results it wants.
>
> It just doesn't have a part number for the version that applies to
> all-gay squads, yet.
>
> --Blair
>

[Bill G]

Buck--Just saying something doesn't make it accurate, nor is your
experience necessarily representative. Check out
www.vietnam-war.info/casualties/ and
http://members.aol.com/warlibrary/vwc10.htm

Although more volunteers and whites were casualties, it is the case that
blacks and minorities suffered casualties disproportionate to their
representation in the population. Interestingly, the trend continues in
Iraq...

Buck wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> As one of those "poor kids" (White, middle class, Stanford graduate) who was
> sent (volunteered, actually) to the Republic of Viet Nam by a Democrat
> President, House of Representatives and Senate, I would like to state that I
> didn't kill ANY "villagers", but kept plenty of innocent people from being
> fucked over by the Viet Cong.
>
> I would also like to burst the 'poor, black, latino' cannon fodder myth.
>
> The only societal group that served, engaged in combat, was wounded and/or
> killed in numbers positively disproportionate to their representation in
> society were white, college educated, middle class males.
>
> Thanks for playing.
>
> Buck
>
> <SNIP>

[Buck]

Your first URL is not germane at all. (You ought to pay more attention.)

Your second supports my assertion. (You don't remove casualties from the
sample because they were commissioned.)

Thanks for playing.

Buck




"Bill G" <***@example.net> wrote in message
news:446dc4e3$0$84247$***@news.westelcom.com...
> Buck--Just saying something doesn't make it accurate, nor is your
> experience necessarily representative. Check out
> www.vietnam-war.info/casualties/ and
> http://members.aol.com/warlibrary/vwc10.htm
>
> Although more volunteers and whites were casualties, it is the case that
> blacks and minorities suffered casualties disproportionate to their
> representation in the population. Interestingly, the trend continues in
> Iraq...
>
> Buck wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>
>> As one of those "poor kids" (White, middle class, Stanford graduate) who
>> was sent (volunteered, actually) to the Republic of Viet Nam by a
>> Democrat President, House of Representatives and Senate, I would like to
>> state that I didn't kill ANY "villagers", but kept plenty of innocent
>> people from being fucked over by the Viet Cong.
>>
>> I would also like to burst the 'poor, black, latino' cannon fodder myth.
>>
>> The only societal group that served, engaged in combat, was wounded
>> and/or killed in numbers positively disproportionate to their
>> representation in society were white, college educated, middle class
>> males.
>>
>> Thanks for playing.
>>
>> Buck
>>
>> <SNIP>

[rick]

"Bill G" <***@example.net> wrote in message
news:446dc4e3$0$84247$***@news.westelcom.com...
> Buck--Just saying something doesn't make it accurate, nor is
> your experience necessarily representative. Check out
> www.vietnam-war.info/casualties/
==============
I suggest you study this site if you are going to use it to
spread the typical lies...
It refutes what you claim.



and
> http://members.aol.com/warlibrary/vwc10.htm
=========================
This site doesn't support your claim either. Imagine that.


>
> Although more volunteers and whites were casualties, it is the
> case that blacks and minorities suffered casualties
> disproportionate to their representation in the population.
===============
Really? How disproportionate? Double? Triple? Even more?




Interestingly, the trend continues in
> Iraq...
=======================
More lies? Tell us the percent of the population that is "black
and minority" and the percent of those that are casualties in
Iraq. Of the 2400 US troops killed in Iraq, how many are "black
and minority"? How dosproportionate are those numbers to the
general population? care to answer, or just slink away and hide?

I'll even help you out.
http://www.deathsiniraq.com/
total--2415 as of May 7th.


so that you don't even have to think about where to look for
numbers...
http://www.deathsiniraq.com/casualties-race.html
black---238
Hispanic--259




>
> Buck wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>
>> As one of those "poor kids" (White, middle class, Stanford
>> graduate) who was sent (volunteered, actually) to the Republic
>> of Viet Nam by a Democrat President, House of Representatives
>> and Senate, I would like to state that I didn't kill ANY
>> "villagers", but kept plenty of innocent people from being
>> fucked over by the Viet Cong.
>>
>> I would also like to burst the 'poor, black, latino' cannon
>> fodder myth.
>>
>> The only societal group that served, engaged in combat, was
>> wounded and/or killed in numbers positively disproportionate
>> to their representation in society were white, college
>> educated, middle class males.
>>
>> Thanks for playing.
>>
>> Buck
>>
>> <SNIP>

[Buck]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Cardinal sin.

Not taking Bliar seriously.

You'll smoke a turnd in Hell for that!

Buck


"notbob" <***@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:***@comcast.com...
> On 2006-05-17, Blair P. Houghton <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>> discriminates in egregious ways.
>
> Whatta load of crap. I was in the Scouts for 6 years (3 Cub, 3 Boy)
> and the closest I ever got to religious indoctrination was citing the
> Scout pledge, "I promise to be ...reverent...". Ferchrysakes, our
> schools and currency are more religious. As for discrimination, we
> didn't even know what a fag was in those days. Perhaps NAMBLA has a
> summer camp.
>
> nb

[the Moderator]

"Blair P. Houghton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> discriminates in egregious ways.
>
> --Blair

Homosexuals make up about 2% of the population, yet they want to tell
everyone else what to do.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"the Moderator" <***@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message
news:EaSdnYM616omBvbZRVn-***@centurytel.net...
>
> "Blair P. Houghton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:***@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>> discriminates in egregious ways.
>>
>> --Blair
>
> Homosexuals make up about 2% of the population, yet they want to tell
> everyone else what to do.
>
>

No they don't. Who told you to say that?

[pmhilton]

the Moderator wrote:
> "Blair P. Houghton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:***@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>>discriminates in egregious ways.
>>
>>--Blair
>
>
> Homosexuals make up about 2% of the population, yet they want to tell
> everyone else what to do.
>
>

The scouts are only one of norty feven groups seemingly having nothing
better to do than meddling in, directing, and filing reports on everyone
else's affairs. All such are best ignored.

Pete H

[Buck]

Well, Well, Well!

Bliar, the little lefty suck up crawls out of his 'West Wing' fantasy world
long enough to sniff at the BSA, and find them wanting.

I'm sure they are absolutely devastated.

(And eternally grateful that you and any offspring you may blight the earth
with will stay far away.)

Thanks for playing.

Buck


"Blair P. Houghton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> discriminates in egregious ways.
>
> --Blair
>

[hob]

"Blair P. Houghton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> discriminates in egregious ways.

Load of bull - the problem was with some leaders and scouts trying to push
their views on impressionable kids - and then some local leaders doing the
very thing they were supposed to keep from happening.
It was a subject used as political football, in an area where I was in the
thick of it.

There were, and are, gay Scoutmasters and gay scouts (if a boy entering
puberty can ever be "gay" at age 13) -
but there are to be NO gay Scoutmasters or gay scouts who wear gay like a
badge (or any other special group who wear their special belief like a
badge), wearing a belief or position in order to separate themselves from
the rest of the troop as "better" or "different" and in so doing use the
troop's bonds to make their statement.
No Gays or Straights, Republicans or Democrats, Christians or Jews,
Protestants nor Catholics in scouting. Just Scouts and the scouting
program.

When a gay leader or gay scout can't keep his mouth shut and follow the
scouting program, but rather has to make a statement about his belief or
orientation or turn a troop of impressionable youth into a support group for
his values, he got tossed. Not because he was gay, but because he tried to
influence impressionable youth into his belief.

Same rule applied to zealous Christians and any other religious and
political zealots.

I caught flak for disciplining an assistant scoutmaster who proselytized
every chance he could get --praying at the flag raising, at meals, at taps,
and at every aspect of scouting - his "special Christian" way. I had less
praying under the nuns at Bible school.
And he got tossed from the troop of Scouts for professing his "Christian"
views to the detriment of the program. Tossed not because he was Christian
(except in his view, since his definition of Christian required that he
preach), but because he couldn't shut up and stop showing the boys that his
way was "special", making some boys feel inadequate that they weren't also
special Christians (only special if of his faith, of course, if they asked.)

And I called on the carpet the military nut leaders, th PC leaders, "my
way is the only real way" leaders, and "leading is giving orders" leaders
and told them to toe the line or leave.

Scouting wasn't about some religious creed, it was about following the
scouting program - which meant the leaders were to shut the h___ up and let
the boys run the place in the representative democracy required by the
program.

FWIW - Take it from CC, SM, and EA that a scout doesn't have to believe in
a God, but in order to be an Eagle Scout he does have to attest to his
belief in some higher power and purpose, other than just himself and his
existance. (And before you assign that a value based on your own religion -
that can be a simple as him believing that the whole of the group can be
greater than the sum of its parts because of their shared belief in a
purpose)

Sad fact is, egocentrics just can't resist bypassing a program and
dominating impressionable young boys. Scouts, school, sports.

So if he's gay and he gets tossed, it's news because the laws in some
places once said you can't remove him just because he won't shut up about
his gay cause --- but if he was a gay republican who won't shut up about his
political views you could toss him in a heartbeat.

The USSC just said a private organization can toss anyone you want if he
won't shut up and follow the organization's program, no matter what local
laws say.

And the gay rights organizations put their spin on it with half truths,
for their own sympathy/victim press.

There are gay scouts and gay leaders - but none who wear it to make
themselves better than the rest (unless someone is not doing their job.)

nuff said.....

>
> --Blair
>

[Blair P. Houghton]

The Supreme Court of the United States of America is a political
organization that misinterprets the Constitution in egregious ways.

--Blair

[Food Snob]

hob wrote:
>
> There were, and are, gay Scoutmasters and gay scouts (if a boy entering
> puberty can ever be "gay" at age 13) -

Why not? I felt very hetero at a much earlier age. By age 13 nothing
appealed to me more than getting my face between a girl's legs. Not
sports, not ice cream, and certainly not hanging out with men and
fellow boys in dorky uniforms.

--Bryan

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"Food Snob" <***@BRICK.NET> wrote in message
news:***@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> hob wrote:
>>
>> There were, and are, gay Scoutmasters and gay scouts (if a boy
>> entering
>> puberty can ever be "gay" at age 13) -
>
> Why not? I felt very hetero at a much earlier age. By age 13 nothing
> appealed to me more than getting my face between a girl's legs. Not
> sports, not ice cream, and certainly not hanging out with men and
> fellow boys in dorky uniforms.
>
> --Bryan
>

Let's not forget using outhouses that hadn't been cleaned in 37 years.
That's my biggest memory from the wonderful scouting experience.

[notbob]

On 2006-05-19, hob <***@comcast.net> wrote:

> Load of bull - the problem was with some leaders and scouts trying to push
> their views.....

> And the gay rights organizations put their spin on it with half truths,
> for their own sympathy/victim press.

All well said. Thank you.

nb

[Brian Westley]

"hob" <***@comcast.net> writes:
>"Blair P. Houghton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:***@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>> discriminates in egregious ways.

>Load of bull - the problem was with some leaders and scouts trying to push
>their views on impressionable kids - and then some local leaders doing the
>very thing they were supposed to keep from happening.

Complete bullshit. James Dale was tossed out because he was
identified as gay in a Rutgers college newspaper story which
had nothing to do with scouting, and did not identify him as
being a member. But his local council found out and kicked
him out.

---
Merlyn LeRoy

[hob]

"Brian Westley" <***@visi.com> wrote in message
news:***@corp.supernews.com...
> "hob" <***@comcast.net> writes:
> >"Blair P. Houghton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:***@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> >> discriminates in egregious ways.
>
> >Load of bull - the problem was with some leaders and scouts trying to
push
> >their views on impressionable kids - and then some local leaders doing
the
> >very thing they were supposed to keep from happening.
>
> Complete bullshit. James Dale was tossed out because he was
> identified as gay in a Rutgers college newspaper story which
> had nothing to do with scouting, and did not identify him as
> being a member. But his local council found out and kicked
> him out.

No, you are wrong, obviously an uninformed naive victim of spin.

He was no innocent - he was running his mouth to reporters about how he
was a gay and a Boy Scout leader - and he used the association to become a
cause, using the Boy Scout name.
Even allowing an association to be made between Scouting and most other
organizations or businesses is grounds for removal as a Scout Leader for
several reasons, something of which you are apparently unaware.

Jewish Scouts and scout leaders don't get to tell kids to be tolerant of
Jews. Irish scouts and scout leaders don't tell kids to be tolerant of
Irishmen. And gay scout leaders don't get to tell kids to be tolerant of
gays.

They may only tell them to be tolerant. Period.




>
> ---
> Merlyn LeRoy

[Brian Westley]

"hob" <***@comcast.net> writes:
>"Brian Westley" <***@visi.com> wrote in message
>news:***@corp.supernews.com...
>> "hob" <***@comcast.net> writes:
>> >"Blair P. Houghton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:***@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >> The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>> >> discriminates in egregious ways.
>>
>> >Load of bull - the problem was with some leaders and scouts trying to push
>> >their views on impressionable kids - and then some local leaders doing the
>> >very thing they were supposed to keep from happening.
>>
>> Complete bullshit. James Dale was tossed out because he was
>> identified as gay in a Rutgers college newspaper story which
>> had nothing to do with scouting, and did not identify him as
>> being a member. But his local council found out and kicked
>> him out.

>No, you are wrong, obviously an uninformed naive victim of spin.

Not at all, since I've been following various BSA lawsuits for
about two decades now.

Oh look, I guess the US Supreme Court is also a naive victim of
this "spin" you claim:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-699.ZO.html
...
Dale applied for adult membership in the Boy Scouts in 1989. The Boy
Scouts approved his application for the position of assistant
scoutmaster of Troop 73. Around the same time, Dale left home to attend
Rutgers University. After arriving at Rutgers, Dale first acknowledged
to himself and others that he is gay. He quickly became involved with,
and eventually became the copresident of, the Rutgers University
Lesbian/Gay Alliance. In 1990, Dale attended a seminar addressing the
psychological and health needs of lesbian and gay teenagers. A newspaper
covering the event interviewed Dale about his advocacy of homosexual
teenagers' need for gay role models. In early July 1990, the
newspaper published the interview and Dale's photograph over
a caption identifying him as the copresident of the Lesbian/Gay
Alliance.

Later that month, Dale received a letter from Monmouth Council
Executive James Kay revoking his adult membership. Dale wrote to Kay
requesting the reason for Monmouth Council's decision.
Kay responded by letter that the Boy Scouts "specifically
forbid membership to homosexuals." App. 137.
...

Oh look, I guess YOU'RE the one who's uninformed.

> He was no innocent - he was running his mouth to reporters about how he
>was a gay and a Boy Scout leader - and he used the association to become a
>cause, using the Boy Scout name.

Nope, he was identified as gay in a Rutgers newspaper story that was
covering the college's Lesbian/Gay Alliance. It had nothing to do
with scouting.

---
Merlyn LeRoy

[Blair P. Houghton]

hob wrote:
> "Blair P. Houghton" wrote:
> > The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
> > discriminates in egregious ways.
>
> Load of bull

In case you're wondering, google's first response to "boy scout motto"
is this:

http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-503a.html

Which includes these two passages:

1.

Scout Oath (or Promise)

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

2.

Scout Law
[...]
REVERENT
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious
duties. He respects the beliefs of others.



While he may be told to respect the beliefs of others, he is ordered to
be reverent. And, as we've seen, the most reverent are those most
loudly calling for discrimination against gays. And the BSA has, at
great expense, convinced a stacked Supreme Court to agree that it may
discriminate on those grounds. Others have pointed out how the Mormon
Church is attempting to take over Scouting. They mandate that children
join the organization, and they apply political power to control its
functioning. Specifically in the areas in which Mormons are told by
God to discriminate:

http://lds-mormon.com/mormon_boyscouts_gays.shtml

They have turned the Boy Scouts into the new Brownshirts, and are
indoctrinating children in a culture of segregation and demonization.

--Blair

[Buck]

You musya got your ass whupped on the playground a lot.

(Didja like it?)

Thanks for playing.

Buck


"Blair P. Houghton" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> hob wrote:
>> "Blair P. Houghton" wrote:
>> > The "Boy Scouts of America" is a religious organization that
>> > discriminates in egregious ways.
>>
>> Load of bull
>
> In case you're wondering, google's first response to "boy scout motto"
> is this:
>
> http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-503a.html
>
> Which includes these two passages:
>
> 1.
>
> Scout Oath (or Promise)
>
> On my honor I will do my best
> To do my duty to God and my country
> and to obey the Scout Law;
> To help other people at all times;
> To keep myself physically strong,
> mentally awake, and morally straight.
>
> 2.
>
> Scout Law
> [...]
> REVERENT
> A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious
> duties. He respects the beliefs of others.
>
>
>
> While he may be told to respect the beliefs of others, he is ordered to
> be reverent. And, as we've seen, the most reverent are those most
> loudly calling for discrimination against gays. And the BSA has, at
> great expense, convinced a stacked Supreme Court to agree that it may
> discriminate on those grounds. Others have pointed out how the Mormon
> Church is attempting to take over Scouting. They mandate that children
> join the organization, and they apply political power to control its
> functioning. Specifically in the areas in which Mormons are told by
> God to discriminate:
>
> http://lds-mormon.com/mormon_boyscouts_gays.shtml
>
> They have turned the Boy Scouts into the new Brownshirts, and are
> indoctrinating children in a culture of segregation and demonization.
>
> --Blair
>

[Ben Long]

After reading all of this, did I post
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/browse_thread/thread/e727caac1fc3e859
in the wrong news group?

Thanks,
Ben

[Eugene Miya]

In article <***@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Ben Long <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>After reading all of this, did I post
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/browse_thread/thread/e727caac1fc3e859
>in the wrong news group?

Learn about cross posting (what it is, how to use it, how newbies abuse it):

Newsgroups: rec.scouting.usa,rec.backcountry,rec.food.cooking,rec.outdoors.camping,alt.rec.camping

It's a feature not a bug.

--

[pmhilton]

Eugene Miya wrote:
> In article <***@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> Ben Long <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>After reading all of this, did I post
>>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.camping/browse_thread/thread/e727caac1fc3e859
>>in the wrong news group?
>
>
> Learn about cross posting (what it is, how to use it, how newbies abuse it):
>
> Newsgroups: rec.scouting.usa,rec.backcountry,rec.food.cooking,rec.outdoors.camping,alt.rec.camping
>
> It's a feature not a bug.
>

But I thought you couldn't use commas in an NG!

Some self-anointed saint sed so!

Pete H

[Eugene Miya]

In article <***@mfx.net>, pmhilton net.ent <***@mfx.net> wrote:
>But I thought you couldn't use commas in an NG!

Newsgroups: rec.scouting.usa,rec.backcountry,rec.food.cooking

This isn't Europe where 1,00 for Euros and and Ada reads 1 000 000, etc.
Code is programmed using periods for hierarchies and directories
(groups) and commas as group separators. If you don't like it, write
a better system and get people to transit over (and the world could use
a better system).

>Some self-anointed saint sed so!

Whom?

--

[RonB]

I don't know what irritates me most. The Boy Scouter spamming our
newsgroup; or the ignorant bastards badmouthing one of the best youth
organizations in the world.

Guess I'm gonna have to think about it for a while.

In this case, The ignorant bastards probably irritate me the most.

Ron