Anyone try ivystat for poison oak?

[t***@mailcity.com]

Anyone use Tecnu's new Ivystat for poison oak itching, and if so, any
reports on how it works?

http://www.ivystat.com/

I've been using Zanfel on poison oak rashes for the past four years or
so, but because of the cost, I only use it rarely, most of the time
toughing it out with just liberal doses of hot water.

Just managed to get a good case of the itch on a unmentionable area, so
I used what little Zanfel I had left and it did a terrific job, as
usual, but when I went to buy another tube, I found that Tecnu now has
their product out.

And Tecnu is about $10 cheaper. So, any reports out there?

[holmbrew]

I have not, but since poison oak and poison ivy are the same species
only differing in their grow form, I imagine it will work. Or atleast,
work as well as it does on poison ivy.

-Jason

Post by t***@mailcity.com
Anyone use Tecnu's new Ivystat for poison oak itching, and if so, any
reports on how it works?
http://www.ivystat.com/
I've been using Zanfel on poison oak rashes for the past four years or
so, but because of the cost, I only use it rarely, most of the time
toughing it out with just liberal doses of hot water.
Just managed to get a good case of the itch on a unmentionable area, so
I used what little Zanfel I had left and it did a terrific job, as
usual, but when I went to buy another tube, I found that Tecnu now has
their product out.
And Tecnu is about $10 cheaper. So, any reports out there?

[Gary S.]

On Thu, 05 May 2005 10:02:37 -0600, holmbrew

Post by holmbrew
I have not, but since poison oak and poison ivy are the same species
only differing in their grow form, I imagine it will work. Or atleast,
work as well as it does on poison ivy.

The active "ingredient" in these plants is urushiol, contained in the
sap or resin from the plants.

Poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac are all in the same grouping,
but there are other species which contain smaller amounts of urushiol,
including cashews.

There are ways to minimize the effects if you get some on you, but
they are only effective in the first 30 minutes after exposure.

Google will find a lot of info.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)

[t***@mailcity.com]

I'm using the terms poison oak and poison ivy interchangably. My dad
was a logger and I now have the family tree farm in the Pacific
Northwest and have been dealing with Poison Oak (which we have here in
large quantities) for oh, some 46 years.

My question is NOT a name question, like "well, it works on poison ivy,
so does it work on poison oak." If it works on one it WILL work on the
other.

My question is just whether anyone has used it and what was their
experience.

My dad never had problems with poison oak. I was immune to it until I
was 36 or so when I spent about a week bucking logs in a large patch of
it, all of a sudden I was in a world of hurt.

Nowadays, I'm not as sensitive as many folks, but when I spend a large
amount of time working it, I occassionally run into trouble.

Zanfel stops it. Period.

Zanfel works to an extent for my wife, but she is SO sensitive, that
sometimes she still has to go for prednisone. But for myself and the
kids, Zanfel is a miracle.

the problem is, Zanfel ranges from $29 to $45 a tube -- and they are
tiny tubes. The tecnu product just came out last year and it's about
$10 bucks cheaper.

I've used Tecnu's Oak/Ivy cleanser for a couple of decades and it's a
good product, so I imagine the IvyStat is just pretty much a carbon
copy of Zanfel and will also work well. It's just that at 11 p.m. on a
Saturday 45 miles from town when I start getting a horrible itch, is
NOT when I want to find out if the IvyStat works as well or NOT :0>

So, no one has tried it?

[holmbrew]

I used to cut a lot of wood in northern Michigan while going to college
and I used to wash my hands and arm with Fels Naptha soap and that
seemed to work pretty well after a day working in a mixed hardwood stand
loaded with poison ivy/oak.

Post by t***@mailcity.com
I'm using the terms poison oak and poison ivy interchangably. My dad
was a logger and I now have the family tree farm in the Pacific
Northwest and have been dealing with Poison Oak (which we have here in
large quantities) for oh, some 46 years.
My question is NOT a name question, like "well, it works on poison ivy,
so does it work on poison oak." If it works on one it WILL work on the
other.
My question is just whether anyone has used it and what was their
experience.
My dad never had problems with poison oak. I was immune to it until I
was 36 or so when I spent about a week bucking logs in a large patch of
it, all of a sudden I was in a world of hurt.
Nowadays, I'm not as sensitive as many folks, but when I spend a large
amount of time working it, I occassionally run into trouble.
Zanfel stops it. Period.
Zanfel works to an extent for my wife, but she is SO sensitive, that
sometimes she still has to go for prednisone. But for myself and the
kids, Zanfel is a miracle.
the problem is, Zanfel ranges from $29 to $45 a tube -- and they are
tiny tubes. The tecnu product just came out last year and it's about
$10 bucks cheaper.
I've used Tecnu's Oak/Ivy cleanser for a couple of decades and it's a
good product, so I imagine the IvyStat is just pretty much a carbon
copy of Zanfel and will also work well. It's just that at 11 p.m. on a
Saturday 45 miles from town when I start getting a horrible itch, is
NOT when I want to find out if the IvyStat works as well or NOT :0>
So, no one has tried it?

[t***@mailcity.com]

If you'all want to prowl around in a field of poison oak/ivy
information, the following site has been around for years and has a
great deal of information on all aspects, just NOT any reviews of
IvyStat. :>)

http://poisonivy.aesir.com/

[Jon Danniken]

Post by t***@mailcity.com
If you'all want to prowl around in a field of poison oak/ivy
information, the following site has been around for years and has a
great deal of information on all aspects, just NOT any reviews of
IvyStat. :>)
http://poisonivy.aesir.com/

Along those lines, this is my all-time favorite site for learning about
oak/ivy:
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm

Jon

[Gio Medici]

Post by t***@mailcity.com
If you'all want to prowl around in a field of poison oak/ivy
information, the following site has been around for years and has a
great deal of information on all aspects, just NOT any reviews of
IvyStat. :>)
http://poisonivy.aesir.com/

This is from the above cite:
I have a question following the quote.

----------------------

"The urushiol oil is an oil. Nothing more. This means that to remove
it from items like clothing or shovels or pavement we can apply either
a solvent or a soap to remove the oil or provide sufficient force with
water pressure.

Examples of a solvent are things like mineral spirits, rubbing
alcohol, gasoline, lighter fluid, witch hazel, and many other items
found in the treatment section. An example of a solvent-based product
in the poison ivy arena is Tecnu which contains mineral spirits.

Examples of a soap are things like joy, dawn, palmolive, and many
other items found in the cleaning supply section. An example of a
specialized soap in the poison ivy arena is Zanfel.

Urushiol Oil and Bonding to the Skin
Urushiol oil penetrates the top layer of skin and binds to cells deep
in the epidermis. Any solvent or soap will remove urushiol oil from
the skin prior to bonding. Bonding takes place in as little as 3
minutes according to some web sites but on average according to most
literature is 30 minutes.

Once it bonds it becomes very difficult if not impossible to remove
according to some research. How the different poison ivy products
break down this protein bond is still not quite understood. Some
products such as Zanfel are reported to have special ingredients that
attract and pull out the oil from the bonded protein. This process
apparently is protected by US patent according to the manufacturer.
Other products are reported to pull out the oil as if this bonding
really isn't the main problem. Many of these products use the
conventional soap or solvent technques described above.

One thing is for certain. People report different levels of success
with all these products. What works for some apparently does not work
for all. It could be possible that understanding the different types
of rashes will help explain this phenomenon. "


------------------------------------------------

Do I understand correctly that the problem in in two parts?
One, removing the bonded oil urushiol; and that's what the Zanfel,
Joy, Go-Jo or lacquer thinner is for.
The second issue is the remaining itch and swelling caused by your
body's allergic reaction after the urushiol is gone, and that's why
medical attention and medications are needed?

Gio

[Gary S.]

Post by Gio Medici
Do I understand correctly that the problem in in two parts?
One, removing the bonded oil urushiol; and that's what the Zanfel,
Joy, Go-Jo or lacquer thinner is for.

Yes. Keep in mind that the oil can linger, for years, or can be
carried on a pet's fur, etc. etc.

Part of the concern with removing it is to prevent getting other body
areas exposed, from scratching or touching the rash area, and then
touching your hair, scratching your nose, etc.

Post by Gio Medici
The second issue is the remaining itch and swelling caused by your
body's allergic reaction after the urushiol is gone, and that's why
medical attention and medications are needed?

Also true. It is an allergic reaction, so different people respond
differently (although unlike other allergen, most everyone has a
reaction to urushiol) and different treatments work differently for
each person.

Really nasty is when people breathe the smoke from burning poison ivy,
which IIRC has led to fatalities.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)

[t***@mailcity.com]

Breathing smoke has -- for obvious reasons --proven fatal. the odds are
pretty low however, since the toxin is in fairly low concentrations.
Exposure to the skin has also proven fatal in a very small number of
cases. Drinking a lot of water can also be fatal.

You cannot "transfer" the problem by touching the rash and then
touching other areas of the body, however. An old myth, but
unfortunately one that tends to keep circulating. That's the problem
with the oils. Once they bond and the rash starts, it is hell to get
them unbonded. Zanfel does do the "unbond." For more information about
the "non-transportability of the oils" once bonded, see the Web site I
cited earlier. tim.

[Gary S.]

Post by t***@mailcity.com
Breathing smoke has -- for obvious reasons --proven fatal. the odds are
pretty low however, since the toxin is in fairly low concentrations.
Exposure to the skin has also proven fatal in a very small number of
cases. Drinking a lot of water can also be fatal.
You cannot "transfer" the problem by touching the rash and then
touching other areas of the body, however. An old myth, but
unfortunately one that tends to keep circulating. That's the problem
with the oils. Once they bond and the rash starts, it is hell to get
them unbonded. Zanfel does do the "unbond." For more information about
the "non-transportability of the oils" once bonded, see the Web site I
cited earlier. tim.

I will look at that in more detail.

The transfer was more about moving the oils around to new areas before
they bond. It would depend on how much bonds and how much is left.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)

[Cyli]

Post by Gary S.

Post by t***@mailcity.com
Breathing smoke has -- for obvious reasons --proven fatal. the odds are
pretty low however, since the toxin is in fairly low concentrations.
Exposure to the skin has also proven fatal in a very small number of
cases. Drinking a lot of water can also be fatal.
You cannot "transfer" the problem by touching the rash and then
touching other areas of the body, however. An old myth, but
unfortunately one that tends to keep circulating. That's the problem
with the oils. Once they bond and the rash starts, it is hell to get
them unbonded. Zanfel does do the "unbond." For more information about
the "non-transportability of the oils" once bonded, see the Web site I
cited earlier. tim.

I will look at that in more detail.
The transfer was more about moving the oils around to new areas before
they bond. It would depend on how much bonds and how much is left.
Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)

And whether or not your clothing got any on it and if you touch your
clothing again. Many people who think they've spread the rash by
scratching the formed blisters (nope, doesn't happen) have merely put
their boots on again and then touched another body part. _That_ will
spread it nicely and start everything up again.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: ***@gmail.com.invalid (strip the .invalid to email)

[Gary S.]

Post by Cyli

Post by Gary S.
The transfer was more about moving the oils around to new areas before
they bond. It would depend on how much bonds and how much is left.
Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)

And whether or not your clothing got any on it and if you touch your
clothing again. Many people who think they've spread the rash by
scratching the formed blisters (nope, doesn't happen) have merely put
their boots on again and then touched another body part. _That_ will
spread it nicely and start everything up again.
Cyli

Yes, time for the "Silkwood shower" for you and your clothes and gear.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)

[Jon Danniken]

Post by Gary S.
Yes, time for the "Silkwood shower" for you and your clothes and gear.

Which brings up the other question; what to wash the clothes in? With skin,
dry application of degreasers/Dawn/tecnu and thorough rinsing removes the
resins, but what about clothes? I'm a bit dubious about putting them in the
wash with water; are there detergents/agents that work in water to remove
the resins from clothes? I suppose solvent cleaning (dry cleaning) is an
option, of course.

Jon

[t***@mailcity.com]

Regular detergents work fine on clothes. However, I usually save up a
trash bag full of contaminated clothing during the season -- yes, I am
usually in poison oak every day -- and when I start to run out of
"clean" work clothes, I haul the bag down to town and pop into the
local laundromat.

There, they have big multiload washers, which do a double wash and
triple rinse. They are constructed in such a way that I can throw the
clothes in without contaminating surrounding surfaces, insuring that
the person who comes after me will not be affected.

And the double wash and triple rinse gets rid of all the offending
toxins.

As for boots, I only wear knee-high rubber boots when I work in poison
oak. I usually don't bother to clean them, since I don't have to touch
them at all in either removing or putting them on.

Only real problem is gloves, leather gloves will eventually become
saturated -- and then it soaks through to the hands....

[Cyli]

On Thu, 12 May 2005 02:48:22 -0700, "Jon Danniken"

Post by Jon Danniken

Post by Gary S.
Yes, time for the "Silkwood shower" for you and your clothes and gear.

Which brings up the other question; what to wash the clothes in? With skin,
dry application of degreasers/Dawn/tecnu and thorough rinsing removes the
resins, but what about clothes? I'm a bit dubious about putting them in the
wash with water; are there detergents/agents that work in water to remove
the resins from clothes? I suppose solvent cleaning (dry cleaning) is an
option, of course.
Jon

I've never heard of anyone having any trouble by putting them in hot
water in the washer with ordinary laundry detergent and running them
through the longest cycle a couple of times. Other than the hot water
causing fading or shrinkage. If in doubt, run them a couple of more
times before drying them?

Be careful handling the clothing before washing. Disposable surgical
gloves sound like a good idea. And don't let the clothing slide over
the edges / top of the washer while putting it in. If it does touch
the outside of the washer, rub it down well with damp paper towels and
rinse it off well.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: ***@gmail.com.invalid (strip the .invalid to email)

[Jon Danniken]

Post by Gio Medici
Do I understand correctly that the problem in in two parts?
One, removing the bonded oil urushiol; and that's what the Zanfel,
Joy, Go-Jo or lacquer thinner is for.

Urushiol is the generic term for the resins in the plant which encourage the
reaction. Removing this resins is accomplished by the products.

Post by Gio Medici
The second issue is the remaining itch and swelling caused by your
body's allergic reaction after the urushiol is gone, and that's why
medical attention and medications are needed?

If the resin is removed early enough, there is little or no reaction. If it
isn't, medicines such as steroids or cortisone are indicated in an effort to
reduce the bodies reaction.

This website explains both the mechanism as well as the reaction better than
I can:
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm

Jon

[t***@mailcity.com]

Yeah, except I would recommend that anyone forgo the steroids if at all
possible, because they are anything but good for your body.

So, instead of prednisone, which is what the doctors usually used to
give me, use another product, which breaks the bond with absolutely no
side effects -- which is why I started this thread in the first place,
but, as usual in Usenet, that fact got lost along the way. ;>0

You can use Zanfel a week or more later and it will still work. As I
asked before, though, does it's competition work as well? Enquiring
minds want to know. Guess I'll just bite the bullet and try it myself.
LOL.

[Gary S.]

Post by t***@mailcity.com
Yeah, except I would recommend that anyone forgo the steroids if at all
possible, because they are anything but good for your body.

Yes, steroids, even legal ones, have a variety of side effects. The
decision to use them should consider cost/benefits, and involve
medical advice.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)

[Jon Danniken]

Post by t***@mailcity.com
Yeah, except I would recommend that anyone forgo the steroids if at all
possible, because they are anything but good for your body.

I've also found that they don't do diddly squat to stop the pain of the
reaction. I've had some severe reactions in the past, requiring cortisone
injections, and never found them to be all that effective. Perhaps they
stopped further reaction, but the pain and discomfort and inability to sleep
still continued for weeks afterwards.

Post by t***@mailcity.com
So, instead of prednisone, which is what the doctors usually used to
give me, use another product, which breaks the bond with absolutely no
side effects -- which is why I started this thread in the first place,
but, as usual in Usenet, that fact got lost along the way. ;>0
You can use Zanfel a week or more later and it will still work. As I
asked before, though, does it's competition work as well? Enquiring
minds want to know. Guess I'll just bite the bullet and try it myself.
LOL.

Next time I get a rash I'll try it myself. I don't have to tell you that if
you have a severe enough rash you'll literally try *anything*. :)

Jon

[Cyli]

On Wed, 11 May 2005 16:42:56 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

(snipped)

Post by Jon Danniken
Next time I get a rash I'll try it myself. I don't have to tell you that if
you have a severe enough rash you'll literally try *anything*. :)
Jon

You could try bathing in tea. Yep. Put tea bags in the tub and run
the hot water on them until the water turns colour. Run more water to
comfortable temperature and soak a while. Brand and type of tea don't
matter. Cheapest Lipton's black or green tea off the grocery shelf
will do fine. If you use green tea, keep in mind that it's not as
colourful as black tea, so a tinge in the water is as much as a dark
brown from black tea.

Or go to an herbal store or online and get Solomon's Seal (or False
Solomon's Seal) tincture (If you can find the False, let me know
where?)) and dribble that on the itchy part. I used False Solomon's
on a little bit of poison ivy nasty I got from petting a fellow
camper's dog and it was wonderful. Required repeated applications for
a day, but then it was all over but the later peeling. You only need
enough to cover the top of the itch / blister, so it's a few drops for
a modest area at a time. Tincture of Benzoin (SP?), which you should
be able to find in your drugstore might be worth trying. I've never
used it for anything, but when you're desperate...

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: ***@gmail.com.invalid (strip the .invalid to email)

[Jon Danniken]

Post by Cyli
(snipped)

Post by Jon Danniken
Next time I get a rash I'll try it myself. I don't have to tell you that if
you have a severe enough rash you'll literally try *anything*. :)
Jon

You could try bathing in tea. Yep. Put tea bags in the tub and run
the hot water on them until the water turns colour. Run more water to
comfortable temperature and soak a while. Brand and type of tea don't>

matter. Cheapest Lipton's black or green tea off the grocery shelf

Post by Cyli
will do fine. If you use green tea, keep in mind that it's not as
colourful as black tea, so a tinge in the water is as much as a dark
brown from black tea.
Or go to an herbal store or online and get Solomon's Seal (or False
Solomon's Seal) tincture (If you can find the False, let me know
where?)) and dribble that on the itchy part. I used False Solomon's
on a little bit of poison ivy nasty I got from petting a fellow
camper's dog and it was wonderful. Required repeated applications for
a day, but then it was all over but the later peeling. You only need
enough to cover the top of the itch / blister, so it's a few drops for
a modest area at a time. Tincture of Benzoin (SP?), which you should
be able to find in your drugstore might be worth trying. I've never
used it for anything, but when you're desperate...

The only thing I've really found effective is hot water whenever the itch
becomes unbearable; usually every 30 to 90 minutes. From what I understand,
it "flushes" the histamine from the local area. Whatever the theory, it
actually *works*, although it does take the frequent application..

I've made a note of your methods, on the assumption that you've found them
to be personally effective. Thanks for those, although I'm not too sure if
I daresay that I look forward to trying them. :) :) :)

Jon

[Gio Medici]

... I don't have to tell you that if you have a severe enough rash you'll literally try *anything*. :)
Jon

It's like hiking rattlesnake country for me..... the goal is to watch
where *every hand and foot goes.

I had the ivy, chiggers, and a sunburn all at the same time back in my
dumber daze.

Gio

[Jon Danniken]

Post by Gio Medici

... I don't have to tell you that if you have a severe enough rash you'll

literally try *anything*. :)

Post by Gio Medici

Jon

It's like hiking rattlesnake country for me..... the goal is to watch
where *every hand and foot goes.

Yep, that's it for me as well; the most effective "treatment" to poison oak
is recognizing it and understanding where it grows. Still, last winter I
picked up a stick to move dogshit off of the trail, and soon thereafter
relieved myself. The stick turned out to be oak, and I was blessed with two
weeks of fun on my privates, ouch.

Jon

[Gio Medici]

Post by Jon Danniken
This website explains both the mechanism as well as the reaction better than
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm
Jon

The 'waynesword' looks too much like 'waynesworld', but I finally got
there.

Interesting that bentonite may have some use..... it's good for
internal poisoning also. Also interesting that only humans and his lab
animals are affected.

Gio