Royal Gorge X-C Ski Area history?

[Bill Tuthill]

Does anybody know how long Royal Gorge Cross-Country Ski resort has had
established trails to Point Mariah and Devil's Peak?

I visited there as a customer about 20 years ago, and can't remember
anything like that. The trail system then seemed neither extensive
nor interesting, so I didn't return until last weekend. It's a kick
having surface lifts at a x-country area.

It might be possible to take Sugar Bowl's Disney chair to Mt. Disney,
then ski down the ridge to Razorback loop and Lola's Lookout (though
double lift/trail fees might make it expensive).

[John Decker]

Post by Bill Tuthill
Does anybody know how long Royal Gorge Cross-Country Ski resort has had
established trails to Point Mariah and Devil's Peak?
I visited there as a customer about 20 years ago, and can't remember
anything like that. The trail system then seemed neither extensive
nor interesting, so I didn't return until last weekend. It's a kick
having surface lifts at a x-country area.
It might be possible to take Sugar Bowl's Disney chair to Mt. Disney,
then ski down the ridge to Razorback loop and Lola's Lookout (though
double lift/trail fees might make it expensive).

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John Decker

[Mark]

Bill,

I couldn't tell you the exact date of extending the trail system to
Devils Peak and Point Mariah, but it's been at least 10 years,
probably about 12-13. In the late 80's Royal Gorge expanded their
basic operation at Lake Van Norden and the Summit Station/Wilderness
Lodge area, extending out toward Devil's Peak and toward the Ice Lakes
track systems, plus the addition of the Sugar Bowl "Interconnect"
trail. It wasn't all done in one year, first there was the Snow
Mountain trail, then East Ridge, then out to Point Mariah a couple of
years later. Since all that expansion happened, they've just kind of
filled in the trails in the middle, adding a few new fun ones here and
there, without much acreage additions.

Why would you want to ride a chairlift? Sounds awfully boring to me.

One side note: a goal every year for some of us is to ski the entire
perimeter of Royal Gorge in one session (with the exception of the
Rainbow Lodge connector). Takes between 4-5 hours at a steady pace for
racer-types, depending on the snow conditions, and is a spectacular
tour that is pretty unequaled anywhere else.

Mark

Post by Bill Tuthill
Does anybody know how long Royal Gorge Cross-Country Ski resort has had
established trails to Point Mariah and Devil's Peak?
I visited there as a customer about 20 years ago, and can't remember
anything like that. The trail system then seemed neither extensive
nor interesting, so I didn't return until last weekend. It's a kick
having surface lifts at a x-country area.
It might be possible to take Sugar Bowl's Disney chair to Mt. Disney,
then ski down the ridge to Razorback loop and Lola's Lookout (though
double lift/trail fees might make it expensive).

[Bob]

Post by Mark
One side note: a goal every year for some of us is to ski the entire
perimeter of Royal Gorge in one session (with the exception of the
Rainbow Lodge connector). Takes between 4-5 hours at a steady pace for
racer-types, depending on the snow conditions, and is a spectacular
tour that is pretty unequaled anywhere else.

So, just so I have this clear:
Mirkwood, R2D2, Kid Lake, Satellite, Wagon Train, Horseshoe, Klondike Lil's,
Wagon Train, Weisel, Stage Coach, Snow Mountain, Frog's Leap, East Ridge,
Filly's Bowl, Point Mariah, Whitney's Bowl, Sterling's Canyon, Lola's
Lookout, Razor Back, Crow's Nest (although I've never seen the nest actually
groomed) Bogus Basin, The Ledge, Anna's Chute, Sugar Bowl Interconnect,
Little Disney, International, Sleeping Beauty, Telegraph, Summit connect
(look both ways before crossing the road) in 4 or 5 hours? I guess you stop
to eat, or it would be 3, huh? Com'on Mark, fess up. You don't do all the
little stubby trails like Frog's Leap, do you? So what's the actual tour?

Bob

[sknyski]

Post by Bob
Mirkwood, R2D2, Kid Lake, Satellite, Wagon Train, Horseshoe, Klondike Lil's,
Wagon Train, Weisel, Stage Coach, Snow Mountain, Frog's Leap, East Ridge,
Filly's Bowl, Point Mariah, Whitney's Bowl, Sterling's Canyon, Lola's
Lookout, Razor Back, Crow's Nest (although I've never seen the nest actually
groomed) Bogus Basin, The Ledge, Anna's Chute, Sugar Bowl Interconnect,
Little Disney, International, Sleeping Beauty, Telegraph, Summit connect
(look both ways before crossing the road) in 4 or 5 hours? I guess you stop
to eat, or it would be 3, huh? Com'on Mark, fess up. You don't do all the
little stubby trails like Frog's Leap, do you? So what's the actual tour?

That's it! Let's do it - 10am on Saturday??

bt

[revyakin]

I did smth like that once... I started skiing around noon and came
back to the lodge after sunset. They even sent a snowmobile to search
for me... They almost yelled at me when I showed up.

Post by Mark
Bill,
I couldn't tell you the exact date of extending the trail system to
Devils Peak and Point Mariah, but it's been at least 10 years,
probably about 12-13. In the late 80's Royal Gorge expanded their
basic operation at Lake Van Norden and the Summit Station/Wilderness
Lodge area, extending out toward Devil's Peak and toward the Ice Lakes
track systems, plus the addition of the Sugar Bowl "Interconnect"
trail. It wasn't all done in one year, first there was the Snow
Mountain trail, then East Ridge, then out to Point Mariah a couple of
years later. Since all that expansion happened, they've just kind of
filled in the trails in the middle, adding a few new fun ones here and
there, without much acreage additions.
Why would you want to ride a chairlift? Sounds awfully boring to me.
One side note: a goal every year for some of us is to ski the entire
perimeter of Royal Gorge in one session (with the exception of the
Rainbow Lodge connector). Takes between 4-5 hours at a steady pace for
racer-types, depending on the snow conditions, and is a spectacular
tour that is pretty unequaled anywhere else.
Mark

Post by Bill Tuthill
Does anybody know how long Royal Gorge Cross-Country Ski resort has had
established trails to Point Mariah and Devil's Peak?
I visited there as a customer about 20 years ago, and can't remember
anything like that. The trail system then seemed neither extensive
nor interesting, so I didn't return until last weekend. It's a kick
having surface lifts at a x-country area.
It might be possible to take Sugar Bowl's Disney chair to Mt. Disney,
then ski down the ridge to Razorback loop and Lola's Lookout (though
double lift/trail fees might make it expensive).

[sknyski]

Post by revyakin
for me... They almost yelled at me when I showed up.

NO!!! Assholes at Royal Gorge????......BITE YOUR TONGUE!

bt

[Bill Tuthill]

Post by Mark
I couldn't tell you the exact date of extending the trail system to
Devils Peak and Point Mariah, but it's been at least 10 years,
probably about 12-13. In the late 80's Royal Gorge expanded their
basic operation at Lake Van Norden and the Summit Station/Wilderness
Lodge area, extending out toward Devil's Peak and toward the Ice Lakes
track systems, plus the addition of the Sugar Bowl "Interconnect"
trail. It wasn't all done in one year, first there was the Snow
Mountain trail, then East Ridge, then out to Point Mariah a couple of
years later. Since all that expansion happened, they've just kind of
filled in the trails in the middle, adding a few new fun ones here and
there, without much acreage additions.

Thanks Mark! That explains it; I must have visited in the early '80s.

Even though I was with a slow skier this year, we went via Palisade Pk
and E Ridge to Pt Mariah, returning via Snow Mtn. Looking down into
Royal Gorge really makes me want to bring AT skis and descend into it!
The ridge starting at the Snow Mtn warming hut looks fairly feasible.
But there aren't any roads down there, so it would be hard to return.
(Maybe this is why posting to rec.skiing.backcountry was suggested!)

Post by Mark
Why would you want to ride a chairlift? Sounds awfully boring to me.

;-)

Post by Mark
One side note: a goal every year for some of us is to ski the entire
perimeter of Royal Gorge in one session (with the exception of the
Rainbow Lodge connector). Takes between 4-5 hours at a steady pace for
racer-types, depending on the snow conditions, and is a spectacular
tour that is pretty unequaled anywhere else.

Except for the perimeter between the railroad tracks and Lake Van Norden,
that sounds wonderful. I can't wait to tour the Devil's Peak trails.

My slow-skiing friend told me Royal Gorge is the biggest x-country resort
in the US, probably measured in groomed track mileage (kilometerage?).
I was surprised how uncrowded it was on a Saturday with fresh powder and
clear blue sky. How do they stay in business? Especially this season,
with high-priced Mountain Lodge having burned down.

[revyakin]

uncrowded? I wonder how many people one needs to make 300K of trail look crowded...

Post by Bill Tuthill

Post by Mark
I couldn't tell you the exact date of extending the trail system to
Devils Peak and Point Mariah, but it's been at least 10 years,
probably about 12-13. In the late 80's Royal Gorge expanded their
basic operation at Lake Van Norden and the Summit Station/Wilderness
Lodge area, extending out toward Devil's Peak and toward the Ice Lakes
track systems, plus the addition of the Sugar Bowl "Interconnect"
trail. It wasn't all done in one year, first there was the Snow
Mountain trail, then East Ridge, then out to Point Mariah a couple of
years later. Since all that expansion happened, they've just kind of
filled in the trails in the middle, adding a few new fun ones here and
there, without much acreage additions.

Thanks Mark! That explains it; I must have visited in the early '80s.
Even though I was with a slow skier this year, we went via Palisade Pk
and E Ridge to Pt Mariah, returning via Snow Mtn. Looking down into
Royal Gorge really makes me want to bring AT skis and descend into it!
The ridge starting at the Snow Mtn warming hut looks fairly feasible.
But there aren't any roads down there, so it would be hard to return.
(Maybe this is why posting to rec.skiing.backcountry was suggested!)

Post by Mark
Why would you want to ride a chairlift? Sounds awfully boring to me.

;-)

Post by Mark
One side note: a goal every year for some of us is to ski the entire
perimeter of Royal Gorge in one session (with the exception of the
Rainbow Lodge connector). Takes between 4-5 hours at a steady pace for
racer-types, depending on the snow conditions, and is a spectacular
tour that is pretty unequaled anywhere else.

Except for the perimeter between the railroad tracks and Lake Van Norden,
that sounds wonderful. I can't wait to tour the Devil's Peak trails.
My slow-skiing friend told me Royal Gorge is the biggest x-country resort
in the US, probably measured in groomed track mileage (kilometerage?).
I was surprised how uncrowded it was on a Saturday with fresh powder and
clear blue sky. How do they stay in business? Especially this season,
with high-priced Mountain Lodge having burned down.

[Gary S.]

Post by revyakin
uncrowded? I wonder how many people one needs to make 300K of trail look crowded...

The thing with many large XC centers is that 90% of the people are on
10% of the trails.

If you're smart, you will look for the other trails and have a lot
more fun.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

[John Reece]

BTW, could anyone tell me if the trail/shuttle combo to
Rainbow Lodge has EVER been open in recent memory?

Every time I call it seems it's closed. Either there's
not enough snow or it's considered too icy. This
is true even when there seems to be quite a pack
driving past the Rainbow exit on I-80 and there's been
recent snow. One suspects it's just on the map to look
good and add to the mileage total. Sort of like the way
Alpine resorts keep old, redundant double lifts in place
after detachables go in so they can claim an impressive
lift total in the brochure.

As for the too icy, well, that's why I've got metal-edged
Fischer E99 Crowns and a pair of Garmont Excursions.

John Reece
Truckee, CA

[Bob]

Post by John Reece
BTW, could anyone tell me if the trail/shuttle combo to
Rainbow Lodge has EVER been open in recent memory?

Hi John,
Yes, the Rainbow interconnect has been open at least 3 seasons out of the
last 5 because I've skied it. The snow cover problem is usually at the
Waterfall which is the final pitch down (yes, next to an actual waterfall)
to Rainbow Lodge. The elevation is low (only 5800') and the ground is very
steep and rocky. It takes a lot of snow over enough time to naturally pack
(thaw and crust) before they can even think of running the groomers on it.
There might be another problem area too: a flat section under the trees that
crosses a stream.

It's a pleasant tour with a nice restaurant and bar at the end (Rainbow
Lodge) while you wait for the shuttle to go back up to Summit Station. Call
them every weekend (a local call for you) starting now and you may get a
"yes" in early March. Let me know via email or the newsgroup when it's open!

Bob

[John Reece]

Post by Mark
Why would you want to ride a chairlift? Sounds awfully boring to me

Lift-served ski touring/skinny ski telemarking is kind of fun. I have
a restricted pass to Sugar Bowl and a regular season pass to Tahoe
Donner XC. Sometimes I'll buy the Royal Gorge day pass, tour over to
Sugar Bowl via, say,
Lola's Lookout and do some turns on the easier Sugar Bowl
runs and then head back. Or I'll do likewise at TD, buying an
afternoon
pass at the downhill area (with property owner discount). The TD
downhill area is a lot more interesting on skinny skis.

If you want to get the hang of downhill on skinny skis it helps
to get a lot of turns in at one time using lifts.

John Reece
Truckee, CA

Post by Mark

Post by Bill Tuthill
;-)

Post by Mark
One side note: a goal every year for some of us is to ski the entire
perimeter of Royal Gorge in one session (with the exception of the
Rainbow Lodge connector). Takes between 4-5 hours at a steady pace for
racer-types, depending on the snow conditions, and is a spectacular
tour that is pretty unequaled anywhere else.

Except for the perimeter between the railroad tracks and Lake Van Norden,
that sounds wonderful. I can't wait to tour the Devil's Peak trails.
My slow-skiing friend told me Royal Gorge is the biggest x-country resort
in the US, probably measured in groomed track mileage (kilometerage?).
I was surprised how uncrowded it was on a Saturday with fresh powder and
clear blue sky. How do they stay in business? Especially this season,
with high-priced Mountain Lodge having burned down.

[Mark]

Hi Bob,

Yes, that's about the size of it. Last year took us about 4.5 hours,
although I had to bail off at a little over 3 1/2 hours from the group
in order to pick up my kids from school. Of course, my "group" was
former U.S. Ski Teamer Marcus Nash, U. of Nev. Reno coach Tav Streit,
and Far West Head Coach Jeff Schloss, so no slouches there.

You left off the Mirkwood Outlook trail. The only two on your list we
DIDN'T do were Frogs or Filly, which I suppose is cheating, but
they're worthless, and don't really go anywhere on the perimeter,
being only about 1/4 K out and back. I suppose this year we'll have to
include them so people don't think we're slackin'.

Another brand new tour we did today: Tahoe Cross Country and Northstar
hooked up for a special tour that was awesome. Start at TXC, ski
through the trail system, and then up the Great Race trail to the top.
Then Northstar groomed a special trail from their system to where the
first Soup Station usually is, and you connect in with the Northstar
system and to their XC center. Then, the special pass you bought gets
you a lift up to the top of Northstar (Mt. Pluto), where you can buy a
special lunch at the summit lodge (we ate a couple of Clif bars and
didn't hang). Then you scream back down to the Great Race trail and
head back to TXC. All for 10 bucks. Very cool idea, and they're
donating the profits to the xc ski foundation or Far West. Total time:
2:45, including the 2 chair lifts up to the top.

Mark
SkiBoyBob wrote:
So, just so I have this clear:
Mirkwood, R2D2, Kid Lake, Satellite, Wagon Train, Horseshoe, Klondike
Lil's,
Wagon Train, Weisel, Stage Coach, Snow Mountain, Frog's Leap, East
Ridge,
Filly's Bowl, Point Mariah, Whitney's Bowl, Sterling's Canyon, Lola's
Lookout, Razor Back, Crow's Nest (although I've never seen the nest
actually
groomed) Bogus Basin, The Ledge, Anna's Chute, Sugar Bowl
Interconnect,
Little Disney, International, Sleeping Beauty, Telegraph, Summit
connect
(look both ways before crossing the road) in 4 or 5 hours? I guess you
stop
to eat, or it would be 3, huh? Com'on Mark, fess up. You don't do all
the
little stubby trails like Frog's Leap, do you? So what's the actual
tour?

Bob

Post by Mark
One side note: a goal every year for some of us is to ski the entire
perimeter of Royal Gorge in one session (with the exception of the
Rainbow Lodge connector). Takes between 4-5 hours at a steady pace for
racer-types, depending on the snow conditions, and is a spectacular
tour that is pretty unequaled anywhere else.
Mark

[Bob]

"Mark" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message >
...

Post by Mark
Another brand new tour we did today: Tahoe Cross Country and Northstar
hooked up for a special tour that was awesome. Start at TXC, ski
through the trail system, and then up the Great Race trail to the top.
Then Northstar groomed a special trail from their system to where the
first Soup Station usually is, and you connect in with the Northstar
system and to their XC center. Then, the special pass you bought gets
you a lift up to the top of Northstar (Mt. Pluto), where you can buy a
special lunch at the summit lodge (we ate a couple of Clif bars and
didn't hang). Then you scream back down to the Great Race trail and
head back to TXC. All for 10 bucks. Very cool idea, and they're
2:45, including the 2 chair lifts up to the top.

Well that sounds like a good time. Sign me up! Tahoe XC (not counting the
relentless climb to the soup station) is a great trail system: mostly nice
rolling stuff with some very moderate hills on the far end.

Was this a one-time tour with all that special grooming? Will it be open
this P-day weekend? Oh, and is that lift to the top of mount Pluto an open
chair or an enclosed gondola? I've got wardrobe choices to make, don't ya
know.

Bob

[Mark]

Bob,

They're planning on doing this again, but probably only once or twice
a year. I don't think they'll have the tour again this year, but you
never know. Ask Kevin at TXC or Tor at Northstar. What's nice is
they're planning on donating the profits (after the extra grooming
costs) to either Far West Nordic or a Tahoe City Nordic group. Very
nice.

It takes two chair lift rides up to the top of Pluto. Or you can do
the major ski up the ridge, but you have to dodge the snowboarders, so
look out. No Gondola to the top, sorry.

By the way, the answers to the original question:
Point Mariah: 1992
Devils Peak: 1987

Mark

Post by Bob
...

Post by Mark
Another brand new tour we did today: Tahoe Cross Country and Northstar
hooked up for a special tour that was awesome. Start at TXC, ski
through the trail system, and then up the Great Race trail to the top.
Then Northstar groomed a special trail from their system to where the
first Soup Station usually is, and you connect in with the Northstar
system and to their XC center. Then, the special pass you bought gets
you a lift up to the top of Northstar (Mt. Pluto), where you can buy a
special lunch at the summit lodge (we ate a couple of Clif bars and
didn't hang). Then you scream back down to the Great Race trail and
head back to TXC. All for 10 bucks. Very cool idea, and they're
2:45, including the 2 chair lifts up to the top.

Well that sounds like a good time. Sign me up! Tahoe XC (not counting the
relentless climb to the soup station) is a great trail system: mostly nice
rolling stuff with some very moderate hills on the far end.
Was this a one-time tour with all that special grooming? Will it be open
this P-day weekend? Oh, and is that lift to the top of mount Pluto an open
chair or an enclosed gondola? I've got wardrobe choices to make, don't ya
know.
Bob

[Bill Tuthill]

Post by Mark
Point Mariah: 1992
Devils Peak: 1987

Thanks again, Mark!
Is the trail to Devils Peak as scenic as the one to Point Mariah?
By the way, here are some pictures of kayaks running Royal Gorge,
of which Point Mariah and Snow Mountain offer nice views:

http://www.boof.com/photos5.shtml

Last weekend the trail to Rainbow Lodge was still not open,
although there was certainly enough snow coverage at 5800'.
I suspect Rainbow Lodge and Royal Gorge X-C Resort are jointly
owned, so the theoretical connection not only increases total
track kilometerage, but also helps market Rainbow Lodge to
people thinking they can ski right out the door.

[Mark]

Bill,

Answers to your questions...

Post by Bill Tuthill
Is the trail to Devils Peak as scenic as the one to Point Mariah?

Absolutely. There are sections where you are looking at Devil's Peak
on edge that are spectacular. The final trail sometimes goes almost to
the summit around the back side, where there are great views and a
very wicked descent.

Post by Bill Tuthill
By the way, here are some pictures of kayaks running Royal Gorge,

Is the Steve Wallace credited on those pages the one who used to race
for UNR? He's a good friend of mine.

Post by Bill Tuthill
Last weekend the trail to Rainbow Lodge was still not open,
although there was certainly enough snow coverage at 5800'.
I suspect Rainbow Lodge and Royal Gorge X-C Resort are jointly
owned, so the theoretical connection not only increases total
track kilometerage, but also helps market Rainbow Lodge to
people thinking they can ski right out the door.

You might THINK there is enough snow coverage, but it actually takes a
butt-load of snow to be able to groom down to the Lodge. Rainbow and
RG are definitely the same ownership. Yes, it might be a marketing
tool in many ways, but when they CAN groom it, it's worth doing. But
it's not worth grooming for them if there isn't a ton of snow down
there. Right now, we've had the best winter of skiing in years, but
that doesn't equate to massive amounts of snow. My opinion is we're on
the light side of snow-depth, but there's still more than enough to
ski comfortably on. But here in the Sierra, that can change pretty
dang quickly, and we can have another 12 feet in a week if the storm
door opens back up.

Mark